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Harvard Professor’s Op-Ed Sparks Free Speech Debate

Subramanian Swamy gestures to the media as he enters the Indian Parliament in 2010. (AP Photo/ Mustafa Quraishi)

Subramanian Swamy gestures to the media as he enters the Indian Parliament in 2010. (AP Photo/ Mustafa Quraishi)

For 10 years, Subramanian Swamy taught an economics course at Harvard University’s summer school. Swamy earned his own Ph.D. in economics from Harvard, and he went on to become a prominent politician in India, leading – as he still does – the country’s Janata Party.

And for a decade, his political views didn’t seem to matter to anyone at Harvard. Until this summer, when Swamy wrote a fiery op-ed in the Daily News & Analysis of India calling for a particularly Hindu solution to wiping out Islamic terrorism. Annex parts of Bangladesh, he wrote. Prohibit conversion from Hinduism to any other religion. Mandate learning Sanskrit.

(The op-ed was subsequently removed from the paper’s website. A link to a version of the op-ed has been reposted here.)

The op-ed didn’t sit well with several students who called for his ouster. Harvard’s president, Drew Faust, issued a statement supporting Swamy’s right to free speech, and the matter seemed settled. Until last month, when a group of faculty effectively fired Swamy, without notifying him, by voting to remove his courses from the summer school catalog.

The move has ignited an even larger controversy at Harvard – one that pits extreme expression against academic freedom. Moreover, it has raised the question: Just how broad a universe of ideas should be welcomed at a university?

Guests:

  • Diana Eck, professor of comparative religion and Indian studies, Harvard Divinity School
  • Harry Lewis, professor of computer science, Harvard University
  • Subramanian Swamy, head of India’s Janata Party; former economics instructor at Harvard University’s Summer School

More:

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  • Anonymous

    Isn’t the proper reaction to being offended riots and death threats not firing?

  • Raj

    Meghna,

    The Hindu-muslim issue in India is nothng compared to the White-black situtaion in the US. The blacks were slaves of the white. In contrast, it is the Muslims who ruled over the Hindus for many centuries. So it is hardly an appropriate comparison and is unfair to Dr. Swamy’s arguments!

    • Meghna Chakrabarti

      Point taken. It wasn’t an accurate comparison to make. Thanks for your careful listening. 

  • Maya

    If we are to take his definition, then the Mughals would be disregarded since their ancestors were not Hindu!

    • tint

      they are not ! but if they indian citizens who are ‘well wishers’ of the Nation then you will note that SS has no problems.  What is being missed is – when SS queries hindu ancestary it is to recall the  commonality of all of Indias’ people – not the separatism, the bigotary and poison spewed by religious fanatics that preaches it is permissable to murder and mayhem.

      • Haris

        The moguls can go to pakistan they have nice beaches…..

    • mainer

      India has been an occupied country since the Islamic rule starting as early as 12 century and then the british till 1947.
      Yes, Moguls are not Hindus. Aurangazeb is a stellar example of a Hindu/Indian hater. They spoke Persian in their courts- is that an Indian language?

  • Pai Vaibhav

    I do not agree at all with the ideas of Dr. Swami. His speech is hate speech no doubt and takes advantage of a sensitive issue to gain political leverage. But the actions of Harvard faculty particularly is unwarranted. This action basically means if you don’t conform to the views of majority of  faculty you stand to lose your position may it be political or non political opinion.  
         

    • Niraj

      Hate speech??? His hate is only for Islamic terror. Dr Swamy
      is working to unite all the people of India under a common banner.

    • Vighnesh Vicky

      according to your view majority have the right to do anything…

    • Chengappa_r

      Dr Swamy went on a Fast unto Death to get justice to tortured Muslims. Here is a report written by Muslim in a rabidly anti hindu communist mouthpiece:http://bit.ly/nMz5Pb

    • Kumar

      Why are you ok with the political leverage by parties that cater to the muslim vote bank ? If you are against some one taking political leverage over religion, you should support Swami

  • Niraj

    It is disgraceful what Harvard has done. Dr Swamy’s comments
    are purposefully taken out of context by leftist in case they hurt the feelings
    of a few extremist Muslims. In fact, most Muslims agree that their ancestors
    are Hindu. It is this commonality which allows Hindu’s and Muslims to co-exist
    and prosper in India. Pakistan was made for those Muslims who could not accept
    this fact. Actually, the real extremists (including Prof Eck) are those people
    who deny India its ancient culture. If India truly wants to combat Islamic
    terror, the government needs to address core issues – Dr Swamy is the only politician
    in India to do this.   

    • Haris

      I have a Job for Dr eck in pakistan….pays hefty with oil money.

      • Kumar

        correction-…pays hefty with money obtained by begging, providing terrorist services and drugs to the world 

  • Jatin

    If we look at Dr. Swamy’s article in context of the Islamic Extremism in India for over two decades and the Islamic conquest for over 1000 years it is compeltely justified. I appreciate his honesty!

  • Vighnesh Vicky

    is there a recording of swamy interview i just missed it……………..i only heard the psuedo secular diana eck ‘s part can anyone help…………………

  • Kkdn

    harvard sucks

  • http://twitter.com/shashikanthhrao Shashikanth Rao

    Prof Elk, along with other faculty members, stabbed Swamy in the back when he was away! The President of Harvard defended Swamy, The Dept of economics wanted him back..despote this still a bunch of faculty members from arts department secretly group together to oust Swamy in ways that does not speak highly of them. They have used Harvard’s platform to carry their personal agenda. Is Dr Elk more concerned about right and wrong than the president who defended Swamy? How can one use the course selection process to oust a teacher of the course!

    The truth is – Dr Elk has spoiled the credibility of Harvard big time. She has also created a sense of fear among other faculty members. She should be the first to be fired. 

    What does your manager do when you go against the institution’s  objectives…you are fired! When the President defended Swamy after teh op-ed, what right has Dr Elk got in going against the institution. She deserves to be fired at once!

    Finally, Dr Swamy never used Harvard’s name in his political op-ed written half the world away. He keeps his political agenda separate from academics. It is Dr Elk who is using Harvar’s platform to push her personal agenda – else why would she go against the President’s statements of defending Swamy!

  • Kkdn

    for those who don’t know subramanian swamy, he is 1 of the most truly secular indian guys u can find : his brother-in-law is Jewish, son-in-law Muslim, sister-in-law Christian, and wife Parsi.he has also fought for muslim rights in 80s. No better example of secularism . Great. to understand his views on his controversial article published watch this interview on cnn ibn

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3lv71xEBs0

    • Chengappa_r

      Dr Swamy went on a Fast unto Death to get justice to tortured Muslims. Here is a report written by Muslim in a rabidly anti hindu communist mouthpiece: http://bit.ly/nMz5Pb

  • Siamak Movahedi

    There is room for a fascist to render a fascist speech on the campus of a university.  However, a university does not have to provide audience for such speech.  And in this case,  a university or a department does not have to hire such a person and provide him with credentials for pursuing his undemocratic aims somewhere else.  This man is using his connection with Harvard as a weapon –or even a license—for inciting violence in his country. This many does not sound like a scholar (I wonder how how got a Ph.D. from Harard), and I am sure his economic lectures are not that different from his political speech. Why should a university host a mediocre  character like this?  

    • Kkdn

      “for inciting violence in his country” how do u prove that this article will incite or has incited violence, coz till now no violence has been attributed to this article. if any violence was reported that was on swamys  residence in delhi when some goons attacked his house

    • Bombai Babu

      You better know the person first then speak!

    • Poonamsharma131

      Swamy is most secular Indian politician and fighting against Islamic terror in a country besieged by constant attacks. You have no knowledge of this great person. He is only true honest politician who dares to offer a solution for this terror.

    • mainer

      Argue on facts and you and Eck will lose – everything Dr.Swamy said is true. He was offered a faculty position  in 1960s, he left as he  had visions of a great India. If his writing is hate speech, so is Koran and bible. Then as per you, they should be banned on earth!
      And your name is Pre-Islamic Zoarastrian name before it was ran over by Arabs with their peaceful agendas!

    • Mughal-e-Azam

      The Islamic conquest in India was the bloodiest in history, which has seen 80 million decrease in the Hindu Population between the years 1000 to 1525. Thousands of temples were destroyed, Hundreds had Mosques build on top of those demolished temples. Mahmud Ghaznavi had destroyed the Somnath Temple, Babar had destroyed the Sri Rama Temple at Ayodhya, and Aurangzeb had destroyed the Vishwanath Temple at Kashi and the Sri Krishna Temple at Mathura.

      • Amol

        Please don’t forget the Taj Mahal… world thinks that it was built by Shah Jahan. In fact it was built by modifying a Hindu temple. Google Stephen Knapp to find out the truth.

    • Kat

      You wonder how Dr.Swamy got a Ph.D from Harvard? Will educate you on that..after a brilliantly authored paper by Dr.Swamy, Harvard reached out to him with a scholarship for a Ph.D. Harvard was extremely impressed with him when he presented his thesis proposal in just a year-and-a-half and even more impressed when he finished his degree in just 3 years that they promptly offered him a faculty position.

      Do not wallow in mud!

    • http://twitter.com/Argus_I HarUp

      A university has many lofty functions to perform. Ideological policing is certainly not one of them!

  • http://twitter.com/shashikanthhrao Shashikanth Rao

    Swamy went to study at Harvard University on a full Rockefeller scholarship. You know what that means buddy!! He received a Ph.D. in Economics in 1965. His thesis adviser was Nobel Laureate Simon Kuznets.Swamy using Harvard connection!!! You must be kidding.  His oped does not say anything about Harvard.  He is a politician and he uses his Political Party’s platform to carry his political agenda, not Harvard’s platform. You should ask Dr Eck what personal agenda is she carrying out when using Harvard’s platform to defame Dr Swamy. He does not carry his political agenda on Harvard campus. You are free to post garbage in the name of free speech without doing adequate research, that’s fine!! There are people who can correct you :)

  • http://twitter.com/shashikanthhrao Shashikanth Rao

    Swamy went to study at Harvard University on a full Rockefeller scholarship. You know what that means buddy!! He received a Ph.D. in Economics in 1965. His thesis adviser was Nobel Laureate Simon Kuznets.Swamy using Harvard connection!!! You must be kidding.  His oped does not say anything about Harvard.  He is a politician and he uses his Political Party’s platform to carry his political agenda, not Harvard’s platform. You should ask Dr Eck what personal agenda is she carrying out when using Harvard’s platform to defame Dr Swamy. He does not carry his political agenda on Harvard campus. You are free to post garbage in the name of free speech without doing adequate research, that’s fine!! There are people who can correct 

  • http://twitter.com/Halebidu cricfan

    Wonderful interview today, guys. keep up the good work. Diana Eck had a big chance with the a lot of people around the world eagerly listening today for her to boldly counter Dr. Subramanian Swamy’s article on facts and silence her critics. RESULT: ZIP. She did not counter one fact. And it’s not surprising at all. She simply latched on the “its dangerous” word from a caller and repeated that 2-3 times until time was called.

    Her twitter profile says she is the “Director of Pluralism Project”. Yet she seemed to have absolutely no problem with Harvard taking something like $20Million from a Saudi Royal Prince (who represent the exact opposite of Pluralism).  Will she recognize Pluralism if it hits her in the face?  Why is Harvard holding on to such mediocre faculty / self-proclaimed experts ? I’m sure there are some brilliant young and balanced people ready to fill her shoes today.

    With every passing day, the decision to fire Dr.Swamy says “Hatchet Job”. Shame.

  • erer

    diana eck’s voice sounded like man’s voice

  • Savinir

    Harvard’s biggest blunder comitted by expelling Dr.Swamy.

  • kkdn

    diana eck made a joke(sarcastically) of mahatma gandhi’s satayagrah she is inciting violence now among the patriotic indians who see gandhi equalent to a  prophet. i want her out of harvard very soon

  • http://twitter.com/shashikanthhrao Shashikanth Rao

    Can we download the audio file?

    • kkdn

      its downloadable if its legal to do so

  • kkdn

    even the CS proffesor was a swamy hater(13:40) . i think  radio should have asked swamy to defend himself in the debate coz here both the debaters were swamy haters.

  • Chengappa_r

    1) British Prime minister David Cameron ” 
    Britain is a Christian country and we should not be afraid to say so.” http://bit.ly/ylopzq  HARVARD IS SILENT
    2) Harvard Professor Samuel Huntington has penned a book titled Who Are We?  to define the American’s identity as a “White Anglo-Saxon Christian who speaks English”. It seems contrived since majority of Americans are perhaps not ‘White’, but Huntington is emphatic. HARVARD IS SILENT
    3)  Australian Prime minister Howard  “But Mr Howard’s interview with the Herald, conducted before the Costello speech, confirmed that the two men are singing from the same song sheet in expressing trepidation about a divide between some Muslims and mainstream Australia.
    It also illustrates the futility of some Muslim leaders appealing to Mr Howard yesterday to censure Mr Costello for the speech on Thursday.
    Mr Howard told the Herald, “when you come to this country, you become Australian”. Similarly, Mr Costello had said: “Before becoming an Australian, you will be asked to subscribe to certain values. If you have strong objections to those values, don’t come to Australia.”
    In the interview, Mr Howard said multiculturalism had become distorted and too often stupidly meant “a federation of cultures”. And he said Muslims must work at avoiding their alienation. Mr Costello condemned “confused, mushy, misguided multiculturalism”.
    Initially, the Costello comments – including stripping citizenship from people who advocate Islamic law over Australian law – were judged to be at odds with Mr Howard.  In the interview, however, Mr Howard said integration was underdone, even though Australia was “very socially cohesive”. Yesterday Mr Howard said Australia’s core set of values flowed from its Anglo-Saxon identity and the Treasurer’s essential point – that people should not migrate to countries they do not appreciate – was unexceptional.- HARVARD INVITES AUSSIE PM TO GIVE TALKS AT THE HARVARD KENNEDY SCHOOL
    BUT WHEN Dr SWAMY TALKS ABOUT DEFENDING HINDUS IN INDIA …HARVARD HAS A PROBLEM . INDIA IS A HINDU NATION…HARVARD HAS A PROBLEM.

    • Chengappa_r

      HARVARD PROFESSOR ALAN DERSHOWITZ SAYS the same thing vis-a-vis ISRAEL and palestine i.e Bomb a village for every terrorist attack in ISRAEL. HE IS NOT REMOVED. Why this farce called FREE SPEECH PROTECTION?  SHAME ON YOU HARVARD.

  • Sks

    Swamy is a briliant teacher.  Loss to Havard and not to India or Swamy.  Shows how money can buy Institutes and the role Islam will play in the coming years.

  • Surindersharma

    Swamy did not bring politics to Havard.  He is doing great job to fight violence and corruption in India.

  • kkdn

    may be sacking swamy was good for india when his anti corruption battle with indian politician is over he should take on  harvard n diana eck n other leftists.

  • Rpalaparthi

    What is the least expensive and quick way for android users to listen to this itunes based interview? Appreciate any help

    • Chengappa_r

      If you are in Boston…just go to Harvard and shout Allah hO Akbar …Diana Eck and Michael Witzel will stage the drama for you LIVE.

    • Bombai Babu

      listen online bit.ly/xy3d8H OR in Tune-in bit.ly/yExDIO in android/iphone

  • Kgc

    With his strong op ed swami has just revealed the true face of Harvard, 

  • kkdn

    harvard has shown that nothing against middle eastern/west asian religions can be tolerated by it. diana eck as a christian asks for forgiveness on behalf of christians from the muslims on the issue of crusuades using her harvard credentials. but never ask  hindus to forgive when christianity officially consider path of hinduism to be the path of evil/devil

  • TonyB

    With persecution of Hindus in neighboring Pakistan & Bangladesh it becomes even more important for India to protect it’s Hindu identity.

    The Illegal Mosques build on top of the temple sites reminds people of the brutality & Islamic Extremism. Mosques in Saudi Arabia (where Harvad gets it’s donation) are demolished regularly by the Saudi Arabian authorities, but when Babri Mosque was removed the Muslim Extremists started killing people all over India and temples were destroyed in Pakistan.

    It’s shameful the wimps at Harvard voted out Dr. Swamy’s courses behind his back, just because they were afraid of the reaction from Islamic Extremists!

    • Amol

      Exactly my point. They don’t care about the reaction from Hindus after firing Dr. Swamy…. Because they know that Hindus are the soft targets. If the reaction of Hindus isn’t equally concerning in their eyes then what’s wrong if a Hindu wants a nation based on Hindu thought process. Besides, this Hindu thought process doesn’t preach either converting or killing people from other religions. How more secular you want it to be ???

      I am surprised to see that Islamic reaction is more important than a Hindu reaction…

  • mainer

    Diana Eck said his writing is dangerous, this and that. How about looking at the truth and facts. It is true that all Indians have the same DNA, most of the mosques have been built on temples destroyed by Islamic invaders- the muslim historians have documented with pride such conquests. Dr.Swamy has said nothing new or false. The ten commandments is dangerous- it should not be taught in Harvard divinity school as Moses killed the population of Israel after he dreamed of them. Talk of inciting violence!!
     She is also against any speech/ writing against conversions from Hindusim to other religions. Why- she is married to a Minister and all ministers agree that they need to spread the gospel to non-believers. The reason one person converts another person to her/his faith is because they don’t respect your beliefs. Her rant against anti-conversion speech/writing is hatred towards Hinduism which believes in all ways to GOD. How is she an Indology professor? She has no respect for Hindusim. God, I sound just like her!! uck eck!
    Her opinion is biased and should be treated as garbage.

  • http://twitter.com/shashikanthhrao Shashikanth Rao

    Prof Diana Eck has an impressive profile going by http://www.hds.harvard.edu/people/faculty/diana-l-eck
    But the stand she has taken reflects the phony side of her!

    Prof Diana Eck – Please read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus and later go back to read Dr Swamy’s article again!

    When Muslims of India have no problem in accepting Hindu heritage, what is Diana’s  problem?? whose agenda is she advocating on Harvard platform??

    Swamy only asked to accept the Hindu ancestry. He did not call for conversion to Hinduism, did he ?:)  Besides he is only speaking the truth. DNA tests prove it.

    Last by not the least:    Prof Diana Eck –  the head of your institution defended Dr Swamy. Dept of Economics wanted Swamy back in 2012. Despite this, you did what you did. You are the one who has crossed the line, and that too in a deceitful way that has put Harvard in a shameful position. You are the one who should to be fired!

  • Guest01

    Nothing new here. Harvard & most other such entities live on donations. And if the Jews, Hindus & Buddhists aren’t controlling a huge stake in Black-Gold and falter in making significant donations as a group – consider them useless. Let’s wait for a century or so – and once all of the fossil fuel from the deserts are depleted – let’s see what the nincompoops are able to do – to get their damned donation money. 

  • Anonymous

    The hypocrisy of Eck is sooo  exposed in this discussion..
    ” A mosque that sat on hindu temple site”. she said..

    In the faculty meeting she just said a mosque was destroyed in 1992. , but Eck corrects herself here as she was caught twisting the truth in that meeting. 

    I condemn all acts of aggression, the first one that built the mosque and the one that broke it.

    In Saudi Arabia you can be punished severely if caught celebrating any other religious festivals like christmas or diwali. It is so bad that indians living there fear having pictures or religious symbols inside  their house. In Ramadan they cannot even eat in public during day time.

    Here is the hypocrisy. Eck has no problem accepting money from  the ruling dictatorship in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis raise money   to spread Wahhabi fundamentalism in most of South Asia. They fund the mass murder of Shias, fund terrorism in Kashmir etc. etc.

    An Op-ed is more offensive to Eck than the Saudi Royal family who run a governent that flogs women for simply driving a car. Where public executions are common.

    Harvard is just a Kangaroo court. Prof. Lewis was articulate and fair. He said the courses were dropped by a 51% faculty vote by a small minority of faculty. Among them the Aryan Invasion Theorist ( Another majorly divisive and discredited theory perpetrated by the European Supremacists to divide India) Witzel, Saugata Bose who is married to known ISI Collaborator Ayesha Jalal ( Of the Gulam Nabi Fai who is rotting in Jail fame). 

    Prof. Lewis said this is odd. Yes all conspiracies are outliers. That is why they are called conspiracies, they do not happen every day.

  • savehindus

    Diana Eck. Professor of Comparative Religion and Indian Studies!!!

    Dr. Swamy was prescribing a solution to unite people in India based on the fact they have same DNA and share Hindu ancestory, when Muslims in India don’t have an issue with that statement, what’s Diana’s problem?

    India is one of the world’s most terrorism-afflicted countries and Islamic organizations have been proudly claiming responsiblity for the bomb blasts happening all through the year!

    Islamic Extremists view India as an incomplete chapter for Islamic conquest. Islam is penetrating India by various unethical means, people are victimized and converted to Islam or subjected to torture & poor living conditions:

    On 19th Jan 1990 in Kashmir all the Mosques simultaneously broadcasted an audio tape asking people to fight Jihad against India and threatened “Kashmiri Hindu Infidels” to leave the valley or face dire consequences which triggered riots, forcing half million Kashmir Pandits to run for their lives, most of these Kashmiri Pandits are still living in refugee camps.

    In Tamil Nadu, though the Muslim population is less than 5%, there are pockets within the state where Muslims are in majority such as Thondi in Ramanathapuram district or Melvisharam in Vellore district, where Muslims have established Darul Islam with Hindus being denied all civic amenities and live defacto as dhimmis.

    Love Jihad, an alleged activity under which some young Muslim men reportedly target college girls belonging to non-Muslim communities for conversion to Islam by feigning love. According to Kerala Catholic Bishops Council around 4,500 girls in Kerala have been targeted, Karnataka has reported more victims than in Kerala.

  • mainer

    how come Harvard didn’t fire Samuel Huntington for his book- Who are we in 2004? From Wikipedia- In the book Huntington suggests that Americans turn to Protestantism, and recognize
    that what distinguishes America from other countries is that it is an
    extremely religious Western country, founded on the principles of the
    Enlightenment and Protestant Reformation. Also warns of a threat from Mexican immigrant.
    Is that not hate speech against Mexicans and non-protestants?

  • guest

     The parallels between Black/white relationship in US history and Muslim/Hindu relationship in Indian history —brought up by host ‘Meghna in Radio Boston’ is topsy turvy.
    Muslims ruled India. In Delhi, the Muslims constructed the first mosque with spolias from the Hindu and Jain temples which still holds the Arabic inscription in the Victory tower or Qutb Minar, declaring that the shadow of god (allah) has fallen on Hindus. In Varanasi and Mathura, the Mughal emperor Aurangazeb pocked Hindus in the eye by deliberately building gigantic overbearing mosques next to ‘Kasi Vishwanath’ and ‘Mathura Krishna’ temple (the holiest locations for Hindus) respectively. (Would Saudi Arabia allow a temple near Kabba?) In both locations, Hindus have a narrow passage way to reach the temple today whereas the Muslims have broad accessways to their mosques which is sitting adjacent to these two Hindu shrines.
    Muslims have partitioned India into West and East Pakistan (today’s Bangladesh). India’s Congress Party bends over backwards to please the Muslim population by providing them all kind of goodies-from haj subsidies, to reservation in education to cushy government jobs.
    That comparison is a stretch.

    • Meghna Chakrabarti

      Thanks for the comment. Please see my multiple comments above – many people have pointed this out, and they’re right! It wasn’t the most appropriate comparison to make. Mea Culpa.

  • Avinash

    The interviewer Meghna should have been more prepared. Nowhere in the article does Dr.Swamy says the entire muslim community is terrorist! Diana Ecks twisted the article and one can argue she should be fired for blatant lying 

    • savehindus

      Diana Eck was all mixed-up & messing (1) Wiping out Islamic Extremism (2) Dr. Swamy’s solution for Muslims to accept Hindu ancestory. (3) American Islamophobia.

      The solution offered by Dr. Swamy was perceived by Diana as ‘hate speech’ because she thought it ‘targeted’ the entire Muslims of India.

      Dr. Swamy had already made it clear, his solution was for ‘uniting’ everyone based on the fact of having same DNA and accepting Hindu ancestory, this way we can filter out of the Extremists!
      Though Diana claims to have been studied in India, her perception of looking at Muslims remains that of an American. Americans post 9/11 has developed ‘Islamophobia’. Which was recently came on spotlight with ‘All-American Muslim’ TLC show, where 62 companies pulled out their support!  This is happening in America which just has 0.6% of Muslim population!
      Whereas in Indian context, addressing the Muslims are very different due to the history of Islamic conquest, forced conversions, partition of Pakistan by Muslims, demolishing the temples by Islam Fanatics, Persecution of Hindus in Pakistan bringing down Hindu population from 15% to 2% since 1947, while India during the same timeframe saw 150% increase in Muslim population.
      I think though Diana Eck is Professor of Comparative Religion and Indian Studies, she was viewing Muslims in the American context, based on the Islamophobic American views.
      I believe Diana & Indian students at Harvard who petitioned against Dr. Swamy were prejudiced based on the American perception of Islamophobia and anticipating violence from what they remember from the Babri Mosque demolition incident.
      In short, Harvard folks against Dr. Swamy have been viewing & quoting their myopic views out of context, by misrepresenting & assuming!

    • Meghna Chakrabarti

      Avinash, 

      Many thanks for your comment, and for listening. 

      I feel compelled to tell you, though, that I was prepared for the interview. I didn’t state that Mr. Swamy targeted all Muslims (only that his suggested policies could “potentially” have an effect on many of them). Also, in the interview, Mr. Swamy himself said many times that “95% of Indian Muslims agree through their leaders”; that his main concern is specifically with Wahhabi Islam; etc. He made his own case quite clearly in the interview, and I hope that listeners were able to hear that.

      My thanks again.

  • Bkn

    As Prof Lewis pointed out, this will open the door for ‘firing’ faculty/instructors based on their political view. A dangerous precedence for Harvard, even the person (Muslim) called in for show worried about that!!!
    Many people many not agree what Subramanyam Swamy said, but there are plenty of people supports his argument. 

  • Prasanth

    Diana Eck compared The Hindu Muslim conflict in India to Israel – Pakistan how ridiculous? 80% hindus and 15% muslims live happily in India except for riots in Gujarath which is a sad story and how can she generalize this? She is giving a very wrong picture about India to the world. Muslims, chirstians, Hindus all of us study in same school and many of my colleagues and friends are muslims.  Why is she lying?

    • Prasanth

      I am sorry it was Isreal-Palestine instead of Isreal-Pakistan

    • Ruchi

      riots in Gujarat were also 10 yrs back….no single incident since then. She is lying simply.

  • Kat

    Diana Eck commented that Dr.Swamy’s speech after the Mumbai blasts was dangerous as it  would incite vengeful reaction from Hindus…but NOTHING, no violent incident happened for 4 months after the Op-Ed was published. In fact, even an FIR could not be pursued in a court simply because it lacked any substance.
    Diana Eck was probably settling a personal score or acting on the behest of a prominent Indian-Italian in India.
    Anyway you dissect it, this issue has cast a smear on the credibility of Harvard itself.

    • Ruchi

      I avoided naming conspiracy in my comment but good that you brought it up. I agree. Regards.

  • Ruchi

    I have heard Dr Swamy on different occassions and many a times he brings up this
    topic.This article is not the first time he mentioned this. This article too was written
    in July and at that time harvard had rightly defended him. What happened in these 6 months that Harvard not only changed its view but sacked Dr Swamy. Need to be investigated.
    Harvard has been undemocratic in not giving chance to Dr Swamy to defend himself. I would say Dr Swamy is large hearted in not suing harvard….may be out of respect to his
    alma mater. I saw how at Devil’s advocate Dr Swamy was convincingly explaining and
    demolishing loud mouth Karan Thapar.
    Hope good sense prevails and Dr Swamy is reinstated at Harvard where he rightly belongs.

  • Ram

    Hindu ancestry (cultural or religious) is the antidote to Darul Islam’ because you cannot be a terrorist and still claim to have hindu ancestry – they are mutually exclusive… get it? the article says: IF terrorists demolish temples THEN…IF terrorists do this THEN do that… time for ‘secular’ psychobabble is up you morons you need strategy, actions…get it?

  • Aditya Adhikari

    Just today the London News reported fear of unrest due to up coming trial of 47 Muslim youth, now is London News spreading hate speech?

  • Ankita Sahai2906

    Diana Eck doesn’t seem to know anything about India. Why do these professors not talk about hate when muslim terrorists kill innocent people in Hindustan. And the fact that all muslims and christians residing in India were forcefully converted during the Muslim and the British rule has been proved in studies done in India and abroad. Why is then the problem if Dr Swamy expresses his views on how to wipe out terrorism.
    I feel Diana Eck is full of hate towards Dr Swamy because Swamy has plethora of knowledge about India however Diana Eck doesn’t know a thing inspite of being a Religion and Indian Studies Professor at a University as big as Harvard. I dunno what’s the hiring criteria of Harvard Univ!!! I am happy that Dr Swamy doesn’t have to waste his time anymore at such a place. All his time is now for his own country (Hindustan) :)

  • Ankita

    Thank you for ur unbiased and honest views Dr Lewis.

  • Aditya Adhikari

    “Hindu Thugs destroyed a 16th century Hindu Mob” and she has no words about destruction of over 300 small and large Hindu Temples in Pakistan following days, and the Buddha statues in Afghanistan.

  • Siddarth

    Dr Swamy is fighting a war against Islamic Terror.US a nation affected by 9/11 should recognise the danger to World’s biggest democracy as the World’s largest democracy.
    Harvard and Yale may living in illusions of pandering to Islamic fundamentalism but danger would be soon at your door step. A lone warrior fighting against organized terror is silenced for Petro dollar funding.
    Another angle is that Dr Swamy is fighting Indian politicians in World’s biggest scam of $35 Billion. Many top names have been involved.Dr Swamy does not rule out these politicians masterminded the coup. If Harvard raises more funding during next visit of their President to India and obtains funding,nexus can be suspected

  • Kumar

    Jews halocaust by Hitler is very deplorable and unfortunate on the other hand the atrocities committed and genocide that is done on Hindus by Muslims in India is atleast thousand times more over the centuries. Atrocities still continue in India with violent muslims mind you not a small fraction over Hindus as the political parties always take side with Muslims because of their vote bank. If it is hard to understand why Hindu kings fought against other hindu kings supporting the muslim invaders, it is still harder to understand why muslim who constitute more than 21% of the population of India are not touched for any intolerant and violent acts from time to time for the sake of appeasement and vote bank politics. The remedy suggested by Subramaniam Swamy shows the desparate efforts to seek drastic measures and reflects the frustration of the current Hindu identity crisis in his own mother land. 
    Eck, you are not open to debate or even clarification of Swamy’s views and your interpretation is based on your own narrow outlook. That also shows in the manner in which his course was removed. Stop looking at problems of the world as a America’s White/Black equation. Harvard was not paying Swamy to teach political science in Harvard so your argument does not hold good.

  • Sanj

    Harvard has taken a wrong step by removing Swami. It is a kind of lynch mob mentality by Eck et al. Harvard should apologize to him. 

  • Robin

    Any institution of learning, least of all a great institution like Harvard, can not block a particular view just because its not palpable to some members of faculty. Harvard must apologize to Mr. Swamy and show its faith in freedom of learning by re-instating him and the course. Otherwise it will be a blot on the great institution.

  • http://twitter.com/banindya Anindya Bhattacharya

    Not re-instating Dr. Swamy would mean that 
    “Harvard’s interpretation on ‘Freedom of expression’ comes with ‘Conditions apply’”

    • UL Rajyam

      You’re right, but a small amendment. It should rather read “Islamic conditions apply”

  • http://twitter.com/Argus_I HarUp

    Having successfully engineered Dr. Swamy’s devious ouster by apparently conspiring with a web of anti-Hindu forces, Diana Eck and her ilk have effectively tarred Harvard’s esteem that was built on  sublime academic ideals. Faced with scathing criticism, she now scrambles to hide behind the hair-splitting logic of permitting, but not hiring “extreme” speech! On top of that she flagrantly advocates double standards for tenured/non-tenured faculty!! She is probably trying to cover her own b**t, realizing that she could soon get a taste of her own medicine and that her right to offend is at risk, now that a precedent has been set.

    She has written utterly false, obnoxious and revolting stuff about Hindu culture and it is entirely possible for a sack-Eck petition to gain steam. If she thinks masquerading as a Hindu/India/Sanskrit scholar confers legitimacy to her stance and slander, she is grossly mistaken. Well-informed Hindus can easily see through the irreverential, distorted studies of her and her cohort charlatan  “indologists”.

    If the gang at Harvard was so offended and concerned, they could have countered Swamy with the might of their reason. Instead they chose to hit him below the belt. Finally, the merits/demerits of Swami’s ideas and whether they are reprehensible or not is for Indian politics and the collective wisdom of Indians to judge. It is none of Harvard’s business.  

    • Amol

      You sum it all. Thank you.

    • Guest

      Eck has no clue about Indian culture/ hinduism/sanskrit ! She has no right to profess to know anything about India and should resign from her post immediately and move to Islamic studies.

  • http://twitter.com/Jangid Pankaj Jangid

    Harvard is a Saudi Arabic university in the US. Is that right?

  • Murthy Madhu

    If Swamy was inciting violence, did you hear or read a single incidence of violence against muslim minorities in India?. No, there was not a single incidence, then the logic of Subramanian Swamy’s Op-ed being a hate political speech is wrong. If Eck can come out of her western perspective of how Indian dynamics work, then she can understand that it was a normal political speech “op-ed” and does not bare any hate or incitement. 
    Meghna, your comparison of Hindu’s vs Muslim’s in India to Black’s vs White’s is totally wrong, you forgot the logic of Apple’s comparison with Apple’s. Lastly, this incident will be seen as a remark on Harvard University and has set a wrong precedence for things to happen in future.

    • Meghna Chakrabarti

      Murthy – Thanks for your comment. You’re right to point out that my analogy was wrong. I felt it was wrong in the moment – but words once past the lips are very hard to take back. Others have also suggested better analogies to make. Point much taken. Thank you for listening.

  • http://twitter.com/Shyamal890 Shyamal Parikh

    Subramanian Swamy must immediately be reinstated if Harvad believes in free speech,moreover there’s lot of scientific evidence that suggests Indian muslims were converts from Hindus during Moslem rule in India

  • http://twitter.com/Argus_I HarUp

    Temple of academic freedom desecrated. Leftist, liberal mafia takes over Harvard. Imposes ideological dictatorship.

  • Concerned Hindu

    I think Harvard’s decision sets a dangerous precedent for freedom of speech. As Prof Lewis commented even if Swami’s op-ed was tantamount to hate speech, it bears no effect on his ability to teach Economics. I despise Swami’s op-ed as a practising Indian Hindu and it should be noted that many in the Indian media have lauded Harvard’s decision. The truly important question is: Should American institutions judge the academic merit of an Indian politician on standards of hate speech enshrined within the American constitution? Also I would like to add Meghana that the comparisons between Hindu/Muslim and Whites/Blacks is not relevant because of the power dynamics between Hindus and Muslims between  and 1526 and 1857. A better comparison would be between Brahmins and Dalits since Dalits until 1947 (when their rights were protected in the Indian Constitution) were extremely marginal.

    • Meghna Chakrabarti

      I’ve heard from a number of people about the comparison I made. They (and you) are right. It wasn’t the most appropriate one to make. The Brahmin/Dalit analogy would have served better. There are likely other analogies that would have worked even better in the American context as well. Thank you for listening.

      • mainer

        I don’t think singling out Brahmins is fair or based on facts. You may say caste verus pariah. Dalits were considered outside the jati/varna system for reasons that have to be yet discovered, nevertheless they were discriminatory.

        • Meghna Chakrabarti

          Thanks for the comment. While I am of Indian origin, I am not a lifelong scholar on Indian society, history or culture, by any means. I appreciate reading the perspectives in this thread.

          • blackmoney finder

            You would be better of drawing parallel with the rich and poor than any genealogical interpretations.  The other interpretations related to India have a veil of ‘western’ intervention which hides the reality.

            While I appreciate your interview, you should have invited somebody from the economics department at Harvard as well. Also, you may want to  inquire  the impact of  funding for Harvard specifically from: the Italian mafia; the black money of India routed via tax havens like Switzerland,  and the firing of Prof. Swamy. That would form a great piece of investigative journalism.

      • Sivaram

        Brahmin/Dalit analogy is equally ridiculous! Whenever there is a caste conflict happens its mostly between backward (OBCs) caste and Dalits. Guys at least get your facts straight before you slander anybody!!

  • http://twitter.com/daideepyab daideepya

    u ppl are biased… here i give you an example….if converted whites of america proudly acknowledge their real origin & themselves as of distinguish themselves from the terrorist group will in fact bring the whites of america together rather that isolating minority white moslems  …  

    India need that to unite all religion on basis of there origin… this thing can only bring Indians citizens together… otherwise identity crisis will lead this nation to wrong path…..

  • Mandy

    If muslim are so dear to Harvard then whey not they hire some Talibani who can deliver speech of love.

  • amba

    Diana Eck corrupt faculty member got paid $100mn by sonia gandhi.

  • Sanj

    Another interview of Swamyji: http://pjmedia.com/blog/tariq-ramadan-supporter-diana-eck-leads-the-charge-against-fired-islamophobic-professor/?singlepage=true

  • Siva Shanmugam

    Interesting discussion. I personally agree with the views of Professor Lewis. A few words on Indian Muslims from my knowledge. Except for the few who are descendents of foreign invaders from Arabia, Afghanistan, Turkey, etc., who would be probably 5 to 10 percent of Indian Muslims, the rest are all native Indians (racially, ethnically, linguistically Indians). The latter are historically descendents of their Hindu ancestors. The difference is like for example the Anglo-Indians and Indian Christians, the latter are 100% Indians, only the religion is Christianity, their Ancestors were Hindus. This is an objective fact, there cannot be any controversy here. Where the controversy arises probably is when Dr Swamy proposes that they accept this fact. Well, think for a moment, why the Afghan Taliban destroyed the Bamiyan Buddhas – carved out with great precision, love and dedication by their own ancestors who could not be anything other than Buddhists?! Tolerance implies your disagreement is peaceful.

    I cannot agree with Prof. Eck’s view that banning conversion from Hinduism would hurt “human rights”. How can that be? The Christian Evangelists for example convert based on the premise that non-Christians would go to hell! Isn’t that a fundamental violation of Human Rights and healthy respect for diversity? In the whole of North America, South America and Australia what is the status of the original natives? Where are they? What happened to Persia? What happened to so called “Aboriginees”? Dont we know? Should Hindus go through the same (although in a more diluted and sophisticated form)? Prof Eck should know very well that Hindus adhere to “Ekam Sat Vipra Bahuda Vadanti”, but the same is not shared by Christians and Muslims – they both believe that the whole world should be converted to their own religion, thus wiping out all diversity from the Human society. Is that an acceptable belief to be spread under the protection of “human rights”?

    Next, I cannot agree with Meghna’s comparison of India/Hindus/Muslims with US/Whites/Blacks. Blacks were imported from Africa, we know all that history. Not so Indian Muslims, they are 100% Indians, as I already said the number of descendents of foreign invaders is insignificant like the number of Anglo-Indians. The Brahmin/Dalit comparison is also not valid at all. Hindu society is one that evolves on a continual basis. We are not based on a single prophet, or a single book or any such thing. Indian History is very controversial, most of it is from the mouths of foreigners! And most people in this debate often speak of Manu and the like, whom Hindus themselves have forgotten. Hindus derive their societal values from the Gurus of Contemporary times. Gurus like Swami Vivekananda, Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswathi, Mata Amritanandamayi etc. This fact is almost always forgotten by scholars who are mainly Western educated and are more exposed to Abrahamic religions.

  • Jasoturner

    This strikes me as reflecting pretty poorly on Mother Harvard.

    Whether one agrees or disagrees with Mr. Swamy, he was doing something that should be cherished in a good thinking institution.  He was thinking outside the box.

    What does it say that his colleagues squeeze him out, rather than openly discuss (and presumably debunk) his thoughts and ideas?  That’s how Harvard hot shots deal with things they don’t like?  They close the gates to fair Harvard, shutting the unsettling opinions of others out at the same time?

    • Amol

      Exactly right. He was booted out because Muslims won’t like it. But what Harvard did, Hindus won’t like it too. So you act promptly when Muslims don’t like it but you don’t give a damn if Hindus don’t like it… How fair it is ???

  • Julia Campbell

    I don’t think it matters if you agree or disagree with his views. Freedom of speech should be protected, especially in institutions of higher education. 

  • NM

    What a convoluted logic? If one of the points raised is that ‘a muslim student may feel threatened by Dr. Swamy’s presence as faculty’, we may also conclude that a “straight” girl student may feel threatened by the presence of a “not straight” lady faculty. Will Harvard drop such faculty members too, if any, in the near future?

    • Guest

      Just an FYI. Diana Eck is an open lesbian

  • Yeskay

    Meghna ,It was a good show and Radio Boston has become a favorite in India now because of this indepth Program. My tweet was read out and I thank you for that. But a feedback
    Prof Lewis was all grace but was opposed to procedure-He did not take a view on Dr Swamy’s thoughts-fine enough but one more panelist assessing Dr Swamy to counter Diana Eck would be in order,since Dr Swamy was not in a postion to counter Diana Eck. Also if you had brought one more call in programmer for a Hindu perspective it would have been better since twitter is just 140 ch and not same impact as a voice call
    Hope you would respond to my suggestions
    Truenationalist

  • DirtyDiana

    Diana views are based on her preconceived notions, which are:1. Many people in the World including the U.S. thinks ALL Muslims are fighting Jihad and issuing Fatwas.2. The solution for Islamic Extremism which includes every Muslim & Islam falls in the category of ‘Hate Speech’.

    Diana Eck is supporting Extremists, since:1. The Islamic Extremists use “Islam” as platform for their mission of ‘Dar al-Islam’ (House of Islam) which means the country should only be accountable to Quran and abide by the Sharia Laws.2. The Islam Extremists are able to implement ‘Dar al-Islam’ in Muslim Majority pockets within India, because the moderate Muslims support Islam.

    When Islamist Extremists are targeting all Muslims to accomplish their mission of ‘Dar al-Islam’, naturally the solution to counter it will also need to include all Muslims.

    How do we find a solution for Islamic Extremism without having all Muslims as part of the solution, Diana needs to answer that. It is very easy to point fingers without actually providing a good alternate solution!

    Pakistan is able to sponsor Terrorism in India and now carry out the attacks via the local India based Islamic Extremist groups! Pakistan is also sponsoring separatist movements in India. There are madrasses flourishing in India which teach kids religious intolerance, not to forget the conversions to Islam by victimization & violating the Human rights!

    Thanks Meghna for hosting this show, also appreciate your professionalism in acknowledging the invalid comparison of Hindu/Muslim/India to White/Black/U.S.

  • Meenakshi

    The interview did not shed any new light on Harvard’s actions or the rationale for it. Diana Eck’s comments are as irrational as they were when the decision was first explained in the harvard magazine. Eck’s defensive position on how Saudi money from a state that denies basic religious rights to non-muslims should not be attributed to all of Saudi Arabia when the money is offered by the State’s foremost representative, the prince, is representative of her twisted logic in the backdoor ouster of Swamy. I dont know what right she retains to call herself an India expert. A lot of disservice was also done to India’s plural ethos – both by Eck whose decision and understanding of plurality in the Indian context is highly suspect because it smacks of a certain colonial attitude that attempts to save an intolerant India from itself, just as colonial britian sought to save an uncivilized India from itself —- and to a certain extent by the interviewer Meghna.  ‘Blood feud’ is a characterisation of Hindu-Muslim relations apt in the context of the subcontinent’s Partition, not in the pre-British era when Hindus were butchered by invading Islamic groups and not in modern India where riots take place in the context of specific political grievances or incidents of terrorism. The gujarat riots of 2001 for example happened in the aftermath of the burning to death of hundreds of innocent Hindu pilgrims, including women and children, on a train. And yet after the bloodshed that followed India has been remarkably calm in the face of grave provocations. Despite one terror attack after another, there has been no retributive or revenge violence against Muslims. This is plural coexistence in the face of extreme provocation. Contrast this with the US: A single terrorist incident changed US’s relations with Muslims who are US citizens as well as the entire Muslim world. India has held on to its plural values despite millenia of such incidents – a past and a present littered with Islamist violence of one kind or another. What is also left out of the purview of the discussion is the role of british colonialism in arbitering Hindu-muslim relations. Its a very complex setting, with layers of discourses and actors and yet highly unjust comparisons have been drawn between India and the US.

    • Meghna Chakrabarti

      Meenakshi,

      Many thanks for your comment. Many people have criticized the fact that we didn’t have a deep conversation about India’s long history with Islam. I take the point.

      However, I’m utterly perplexed as to how we would have done that within the confines of an 18-minute live conversation. Especially, since, as you note, it’s a history that spans a millennium. Even beginning to go down that path would have ended in a simplistic, very facile historical investigation – again, since we only had 18 minutes. It feels as if the criticism would have been even more vehement, had we done so. 

      We would have also risked completely abandoning the core issue we could focus on in that time – which is the question of freedom of speech on college campuses. 

      In any case, the comments here have gone a long way towards continuing the conversation regarding Indian history. For that, I am grateful to all who are participating. My thanks again.

      • Sivaram

        You are right, 18 minutes is too short a time to analyze Indian history but what you could have done is bring in a seamy supporter to debate Diana Eck. A debate between those who hate Swamy Vs those who don’t know Swamy is not exactly balanced!!

        • Meghna Chakrabarti

          Sivaram, 

          Many thanks for your comment. Prof. Lewis, who was part of the program, supports Mr. Swamy’s right to expression. Given that freedom of speech was the focus of our conversation, he provided the balance. Again, this wasn’t a debate over the merits of what Swamy said, simply whether or not free expression should be allowed on Harvard’s campus.

          Thank you again for listening.

  • Amol

    Diana Eck has a
    flawed logic. Many things can be proved against her decision to oppose/fire Dr.
    Swamy.

    She totally ignores how Hindus are suffering under the pseudo-secular
    government of India.
     

    If secularism
    is hurting Hindus and if their treatment is not fair, what’s the use of India
    declaring itself secular?

    Secularism is supposed to be fair for everyone. In
    India it seems like it’s there only for the welfare of minorities while
    majority is treated unfairly.

    In case of
    India, it seems like secularism means Hindus have to adjust unfairly and let
    the atrocities continue in one form or other, only because they are in
    majority.

     In any other country, majority will indeed be a majority. But in
    India, the plight of majority is worse than the plight of minority.

    Diana Eck
    doesn’t have the maturity to understand these minute details in case of India.

     

  • http://twitter.com/Argus_I HarUp

    Harvard hijacked by the ideology Taliban! Can you believe it’s happening in America, the fountainhead of democracy? Emerson and Thoreau, who hallowed Harvard’s portals, would be restlessly turning in their graves!

  • DirtyDiana

    Please protest for reinstating Dr. Swamy’s courses in Harvard during Drew Gilpin Faust, President of Harvard University, on her inaugural visit to India

    Thursday, January 19, 2012 at The Taj Mahal Palace, Apollo Bunder, Mumbaihttp://alumni.harvard.edu/haa/events/375mumbai

    Tuesday, January 24, 2012 at The Taj Mahal Hotel, Number One Mansingh Road, New Delhihttp://alumni.harvard.edu/haa/events/375newdelhi

    • DirtyDiana

      google: ’375mumbai harvard’ & ’375newdelhi harvard’ for detailed information     

  • Talktocoolguy111

    There is a movement to make Malaysian Muslims part of Malaysia and same with Indonesia. What is wrong in projecting Indian Muslims as part of India so disconnecting from the Wahhabi sect?
    I think Swamy did the same. But now there is lot of chatter and smoke that the original idea is lost.

  • satya

    Megna,
    at point you said you are not a great follower of India and Indian culture. That is fine.
    But at least you should have known the history what Ms.Elk is twisting.
    Pls read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_non-Muslim_places_of_worship_into_mosques
    there are numerous churches/temples destroyed like that around the world like that.
    This history is also important in this context

    • Meghna Chakrabarti

      Satya,

      Thanks for your comment. I didn’t say that I don’t follow Indian culture. I wrote that I’m not a *scholar* of Indian history. However, in this case, I do know the history that you’re referring to. Also, just to note, when Prof. Eck said that, I did at least offer a counterpoint that Mr. Swamy’s editorial did not come out of the blue; it was written after a terrible triple bombing in Mumbai, as you know. 

      I can understand that many people wish we had included a much deeper historical analysis in this conversation. I wish that for almost every segment we do on the program. Unfortunately, we have limited time in a live conversation. Every single avenue of inquiry cannot be followed. There are times when we must move on in order to preserve focus on the primary issue in the conversation. Again, I know it doesn’t fully satisfy. But, on the other hand, that’s what makes these ongoing online comment threads so important and useful.

      Thank you once again for your participation.

      • Anonymous

        Some topics need more time.  Skip sports.

  • confusedethics

    I apologise for the lenghty comment. However I want to present the evidence as it is, and let you decide. Dr. Swamy was very nice and professional in the interview. But  the interest of america, american universities, freedom of speech should not become an asset of one indiviual/community or one with the big purchasing power. I see a pattern, I do not want to be called biased. But you look , analyse and conclude.
     
    1) Diana Eck is the greatest philiosopher who sees no evil in terrorists of 9/11, but she told Meghna : in the thugs who destroyed the structure build over their temple. Here is her interview in PBS after 9/11.
     
    One of
    the themes in “Faith and Doubt at Ground Zero” is the question of evil, and the
    way President Bush and others have used the term “evil” as a noun, evil as this
    thing. Do you think that an effort to unpack this term, to think about
    what we mean by it, is a helpful exercise as we try to enter into a new dialogue
    with people of other religions? Or does it become a stumbling block?

    I think
    it’s very useful to think about the question of evil — what we mean when we use
    that term as a noun or when we use that term as an adjective — but I am not at
    all in agreement with the notion that we need to personify evil, in terms of
    persons and in terms of empires, and that sort of thing. I think actually we
    deceive ourselves when we do that. But I do think that the discussion of what we
    mean by evil could be very productive as a way of beginning to unpack the use of
    that term in our time by people of Jewish and Christian and Muslim faiths, all
    of which share a sense of Satan in one way or another. And, of course, Hindus
    and Buddhists, especially Tibetan Mahayana Buddhists, are very lavish in their
    personifications of just about everything — the personification of divinities
    and of the obstructive forces is very common. And we might actually learn a lot
    about one another that way.

    But I am
    less inclined to want to approach the whole question of Sept. 11 through the use
    of terms like evil. I mean, I think we can describe deeds as evil, and this
    certainly was an evil deed. But the more we describe persons as “evildoers,” and
    think we know what we mean, the more we alienate all the things that are
    abhorrent to us from our own understanding. And I think that it is very
    important for us to try to understand what has been happening in the world, and
    what may have been the motivations behind the people who have takenus as
    evildoers. Mind you, the term evil is one that’s very reciprocal. And clearly,
    Al Qaeda and the bombers of Sept. 11 had a very forceful sense that we ourselves
    are evil and were perpetrating evil in the world. So I’m not sure how much it
    helps us simply to label them as evil. I think we need, not necessarily to
    psychologize or politicize, but to try to understand what it is that we’re
    encountering here.
     
     
    2) Now Diana eck view on 9/11 mosque published in harvard crimson:
     In sum, the life’s work of both Feisal Rauf and Daisy Khan has been dedicated to fostering better relations between Islam and the West.In the midst of this media maelstrom, we all need to ask some serious questions: How did this Cordoba vision become dubbed “the mosque at Ground Zero?” What political interests are at stake in perpetuating this public controversy, long after the official bodies of the city of New York have given it resounding approval? If it is really about “sensitivity” and “proximity to Ground Zero,” why are protesters holding signs with the words “Sharia” lettered in red and dripping with blood? Why the rise of a frightening spate of Islamophobia just now?The Pluralism Project at Harvard has followed the targeting of progressive Muslim leaders in America for the past 20 years. What has happened to Feisal Rauf is not new. It is part of a deeply disturbing and continuing pattern of groundless accusation, guilt by association, and the distortion of both words and motives. All these suspicions find fertile soil in which to grow, given the general inexperience most Americans have with Muslims, Muslim communities, and the Islamic faith. Now, more than ever, we need just the kind of Cordoba House that Feisal Rauf proposes—and we need one in every city and town in America.
     
     

    #) DIANA L. ECK does not want voice of Islam shut. But then????

    Shutting out a voice for Islam

    By Diana L. Eck | February 2,
    2006

    WHY IS THE American Academy of Religion, with more than 10,000 members who
    teach religion in colleges and universities, suing Secretary of State
    Condoleezza Rice and Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff? It takes a
    matter of grave concern for an academy of scholars who study everything from the
    Bible to Buddhists to join the American Civil Liberties Union in bringing a case
    against the US government. The concern is this: Our colleague, Tariq Ramadan, an
    Islamic scholar and theologian, has been barred from entering the United States
    to participate in the discussion of one of the most important topics of today:
    contemporary Islam in the West.
    For 18 months, the government has withheld his visa on the basis of the
    ”ideological exclusion” provision of the Patriot Act, interpreted so broadly as
    to be a danger to the enterprise of debate and exchange in a free society.
    At first it seemed an ignorant mistake. Ramadan, a Swiss national of Egyptian
    ancestry, had previously lectured at universities and attended conferences in
    the United States. But in August 2004, he suddenly had his visa revoked by the
    Department of Homeland Security on the eve of his departure to teach at Notre
    Dame. Those of us who had known and admired his work were astounded. He was at
    the top of my reading list as an articulate spokesman for Islamic engagement in
    civil society and in the dialogue of religions. I had met Ramadan that summer at
    the Parliament of the World’s Religions in Barcelona. I looked forward to
    hearing his plenary address at the annual meeting of the American Academy of
    Religion in November 2004. So why would the US government revoke the visa of a
    scholar whose entire body of work was dedicated to an emergent ”reformist”
    Islam? Why would the United States deny entry to someone able to contribute
    constructively to public discussion in Western countries with growing Muslim
    populations?
    That very summer, Rice had spoken at the US Institute of Peace, calling for
    the United States to dramatically expand ”our efforts to support and encourage
    the voices of moderation and tolerance and pluralism within the Muslim world.”
    So why would she be party to the exclusion of one of the most prominent of these
    voices?
    The government has invoked a provision of the Patriot Act that allows it to
    deny a visa to anyone who ”endorses” or ”espouses” terrorism. It is chilling
    to see that this provision has been interpreted to ban a prominent intellectual
    who has been a consistent public critic of Islamic extremism and terrorism.
    Of course the government has and should have the power to exclude known
    terrorists. But this provision of the Patriot Act is being used to exclude
    people whose voices the government does not want us to hear and to block critics
    of US policies from engaging in public discussion and academic debate.
    In November 2004, Ramadan did deliver that keynote address, sitting at a bare
    table somewhere in Canada, speaking to us on a large-screen video monitor.
    Ramadan articulated the themes he has long emphasized. He spoke of the ”new
    reality” of American Muslims and of the importance of being ”fully Muslim and
    fully American.” Without a trace of bitterness, he spoke of the ”ethics of
    citizenship” and participation as Western Muslims. Western Muslims must be able
    to say ”This is our country. It is not an alien space in which we forever
    perceive ourselves as foreigners. It is our home.” He spoke of the ”silent
    revolution” of reformist Islam taking place today. And he spoke of the critical
    significance of interfaith dialogue, grounded for him in the Muslim doctrine of
    tawhid, the oneness of God. It was a stirring message by a Muslim
    theologian of the stature of a Reinhold Niebuhr or Paul Tillich, delivered to us
    from the other side of the walls we ourselves have built. While heartened by his
    message, I felt saddened, ashamed, and fearful for my country.
    The study and analysis of religion is indisputably important in the world in
    which we live today. Religious and theological studies are integral to the
    curriculum of more than 2,000 colleges, universities, and seminaries across the
    country. Our community of colleagues is global. Denying us face-to-face access
    to scholars and theologians who contribute to critical reflection on the
    religious currents of our world is an intolerable impoverishment of the academic
    enterprise.
    Diana L. Eck, a professor of
    comparative religion at Harvard University, is president of the American Academy
    of Religion.
     
    Now ottawa citizen giving an introduction to Mr. Ramadana, Ecks favourite
    By Robert Sibley, The Ottawa CitizenMarch 18, 2010
    ( Part of article where
    various indiviuals have raised and questioned his credibility, links to terror,
    etc.)
    Ramadan’s reputation as a “moderate” has come into question in recent
    years, with some reputable commentators suggesting Ramadan is a master
    practitioner of the Islamic doctrine of taqiyya, or dissimulation.
    “Ramadan is a dangerous
    radical who, far from modernizing Islam, is in fact attempting to Islamize
    modernity,” says Pakistani-born scholar and Muslim apostate Ibn Warraq.
    “I don’t see anyone today who is as effective as Tariq Ramadan in
    furthering fundamentalism in France,” says French journalist Caroline Fourest,
    the author of a book on Ramadan.
    Fourest says Ramadan is known for saying one thing to Muslims and another
    to western audiences. His purpose, she said in a 2004 interview with L’Express,
    is “to modify the secular state and help matters evolve toward ‘more Islam.’
    Unfortunately, the Islam in question is not an enlightened and modern Islam, but
    a reactionary and fundamentalist one.”
    Paul Berman, a journalist who teaches at New York University, and the
    author of studies on totalitarian ideology, offers perhaps the most rigorous
    analysis of Ramadan’s ideological background. Ramadan comes across as reasoned
    and moderate, Berman says in a recent essay, but his reformist image is
    compromised by his admiration of and abiding attachment to extremist Muslim
    ideologues, including his father and grandfather.
    “The problem lies in the terrible fact that Ramadan’s personal milieu —
    his grandfather, his family history, his family contacts, his intellectual
    tradition — is precisely the milieu that bears the principal responsibility for
    generating the modern theoretical justification for religious suicide,” Berman
    writes.
    1) Normally, you don’t hold a
    man’s family against him. In Ramadan’s case, however, it is permissible because
    he makes so much of his heritage.
    Ramadan’s
    maternal grandfather was Hassan Al-Banna, who in 1928 founded the Muslim
    Brotherhood to promote Salafism; a term that refers to the dream of returning
    Islam to the strict practices of sharia that prevailed in the seventh century.
    In the late 1940s, when the UN voted to create Israel, the New York Times quoted
    him as saying, “If the Jewish state becomes a fact, (the Arabs) will drive the
    Jews who live in their midst into the sea.”
    Tariq Ramadan’s father, Said Ramadan, was Al-Banna’s son-in-law and
    personal secretary. After being expelled from Egypt, Said went to Saudi Arabia
    and became a founder of the World Islamic League, a charity devoted to spreading
    Islam.
    He then moved to Switzerland to raise a family — Tariq was born in 1962 —
    and establish the Islamic Center in Geneva to promote the Muslim Brotherhood’s
    ideas.
    2)Tariq Ramadan’s “heritage”
    has also been linked to those who promote terrorism. Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi, a
    scholar of Sunni Islam, directed funeral prayers for Ramadan’s father when he
    died in 1995 — a fact Ramadan proudly mentions in his book The Roots of the
    Muslim Revival. However, Qaradawi is better known to westerners for issuing a
    fatwa in 2003 justifying the use of women as suicide bombers. Nevertheless, as
    Berman notes, Ramadan “reveres Qaradawi above all other present-day Islamic
    scholars, and in one book after another he has left no room for doubt about his
    fealty.”
    3)To be sure, Ramadan has
    never publicly condoned violence. But then he has never outright condemned
    terrorism. After the 9/11 attacks, he said, “we should condemn bin Laden’s
    statement and actions.” (Why “should”? Why not say outright he condemns the
    attacks? ) In an interview with the French magazine Le Point, he referred to the
    attacks on New York, as well as ones in Bali and Madrid that killed hundreds, as
    “interventions.” He’s said killing Israeli children in acts of terrorism is
    “morally condemnable,” but “contextually explicable.”
    4)In light of such
    equivocation it is not unreasonable to wonder at Ramadan’s motives, particularly
    when you consider how proudly he proclaims his intellectual and spiritual
    attachments to those who endorse violence.
    Jean-Charles Brisard, an internationally recognized expert on terrorism
    financing, says Tariq and his older brother Hani Ramadan “co-ordinated a meeting
    (in Geneva) in 1991 attended by Ayman Al Zawahiri and Omar Abdel Rahman.”
    Zawahiri would become the second in command of al-Qaeda. Rahman is serving a
    life sentence in the U.S. as the planner of the 1993 World Trade Center
    attack.
    Perhaps, though, the most telling exposure of taqiyya was Tariq’s response
    to a statement by his older brother Hani, who once endorsed stoning to death
    women who commit adultery.
    5)In a
    2003 debate on French television, Tariq was asked to comment on his brother’s
    views. Did he agree? His interlocutor was none other than Nicolas Sarkozy, the
    then-French interior minister and now president.
    “I am in favour of a moratorium so that they stop applying this sort of
    punishments in the Muslim world,” Ramadan said.
    Sarkozy was stunned. “A moratorium … Mr. Ramadan are you serious? … We
    should, for a while, hold back from stoning women?”
    Sarkozy’s reaction rattled Ramadan. He equivocated, asking about the
    meaning of “moratorium,” arguing that a “true debate” was needed so that “if we
    arrive at a consensus among Muslims, it will necessarily end.”
    The future French president
    wouldn’t let Ramadan sidestep his moral incoherence. “You have just said
    something particularly incredible, which is that the stoning of women, yes, the
    stoning is a bit shocking, but we should simply declare a moratorium, and then
    we are going to think about it in order to decide if it is good.”
    Sarkozy was right.
    What is there to debate? You don’t seek a “consensus” on such a barbaric
    practice. What if you don’t get a consensus? Would Ramadan let the “moratorium”
    – which my dictionary defines as “a temporary ban on the use or production of
    something” — lapse? (In 2005, Ramadan again called for an “immediate
    moratorium” on the application of hudud– prescribed Islamic penalties — such
    as corporal punishment, stoning and the death penalty in all majority Muslim
    countries. However, nowhere in the announcement does he condemn stoning.)
    Did Ramadan’s mask slip? Berman suggests this was the case. “Six million
    French people watched that exchange. A huge number of Muslim immigrants must
    have been among them — the very people who might have benefited from hearing
    someone speak with absolute clarity about violence against women. Ramadan
    couldn’t do it. … The seventh century had suddenly appeared, poking out from
    beneath the modern rhetoric of feminism and rights. A moment of
    barbarism.”
    Might this
    “moment of barbarism” have something to do with the “heritage” of which Ramadan
    is so proud? In an interview with Le Monde diplomatique, Ramadan acknowledged
    his intellectual debt to his grandfather’s ideas. “I have studied Hassan
    al-Banna’s ideas with great care and there is nothing in this heritage that I
    reject.”
    Nothing? If so, then it is not unreasonable for anyone listening to Ramadan
    to suspect he is engaged in taqiyya. His message, as Berman observes, “is a
    double message.”
    This kind of doublespeak, says Fourest, confers an indirect legitimacy on
    the Islamist agenda, and thus, implicitly, justifies terrorism. Thus, Ramadan
    remains “scrupulously faithful to the strategy mapped out by his grandfather, a
    strategy of advance stage by stage” toward making sharia a reality in western
    liberal society. Along the way, Ramadan, soft-spoken, ever elegant, always
    charming, “disarms those who are wary of Islamism.”
    Perhaps those attending Friday’s lecture will not be so disarmed, will not
    settle for dissimulation, will not let wishful thinking replace justifiable
    wariness.
    Robert Sibley is a
    senior writer with the Ottawa Citizen.

  • Evamerlie

    Dr.Swamy’s  concept articulated well by him which was the basis on which Harvard showed him the door, is similar to Darwin theory of evolution, which was challenged in US Supreme Court in 1920s. During the hearings of the case, the US Judge intervened to remind of the person in the witness box defending teaching of Darwin’s theory in schools- “Mind you, he is a Harvard Professor”. In this case I want to remind Harvard, “Mind you, Dr.Swamy is a Harvard Professor”.
    His concept cannot be challenged in any court, for that’s the truth & challenge if anyone can, if anyone wants to. Let Harvard focus on education and leave religious concepts for questioning, at the expense of freedom of speech, to the courts of law. Harvard University has succumbed to a pressure group led by Eck. Question Eck’s motives. Question Harvard’s right to question freedom of speech.
    I think it would be splendid if President Obama would embark on an “interfaith outreach” and send Eck and her wife to Egypt and Nigeria on a fact finding tour. I’m sure this dynamic duo would report back to congress that the Christians in these countries should have all foreign aid cut off for having provoked the peace loving Muslims by not respecting sharia, by failing to preach/promote acceptance of gay marriage and refusing to allow pedophiles positions as Boy Scout leaders.
    One should not enter into the domain of religious misconceptions that take away the main point – Harvard is at wrong.

  • Evamerlie

    Dr. Swamy clearly said how to wipe out Islamic TERROR. He did not say wipe out Islam.
    BTW Dr. Swamy is right simply coz a terrorist attack of this magnitude cannot be possible without LOCAL SUPPORT..Sad to see that Americans have already forgotten who caused 9/11 !Sad to see that Americans have already forgotten who caused 9/11 !

  • ULRajyam

     

    The broadcast and the debate are interesting. And I’d like
    to share my viewpoint.

     

    1.      
    Vote bank politics is coming in the way of
    effectively acting against Islamic terrorism in India, for Muslims – barring a
    very few exceptions – tend to vote en bloc, and so the political parties kowtow
    to their demands – however wild they are.  The attitude and behavior of Muslims and
    their ‘secular’ supporters in India is very strange. Muslims have been increasing
    their numbers claiming that Islam is against birth control. So they go on
    multiplying their numbers (and continue their polygamy – whatever be the number
    of such). Paradoxically,  they  not only lay the blame for their resultant economic
    backwardness at the door of the Hindus and the government but also vocally
    demand a slew of special concessions including reservations. Reservations to a
    community which had been an intolerant ruler!

    2.      
    Muslims in India are not only the most pampered
    but also the most aggressive lot. Just analyze the speeches by a number of
    Muslim leaders, and you’ll know how provocative and challenging they can be for
    all their talk of ‘discrimination’ against Muslims. Also see how a number of
    their mosques encroach upon the public spaces and roads disrupting the
    road-alignment and flow of traffic.

    3.      
    Pre-Independence or post-Independence, it’s
    always been the Hindus that have been threatened and persecuted by Muslims.
    Muslims had been the ruling class for many centuries and untold atrocities were
    heaped on Hindus – the majority, whereas in the US it was the Blacks – the minority
    - that were at the receiving end. Anyway, Meghna was sensible and good enough
    to retract on this score.

    4.      
    Muslims have gained a theocratic Pakistan and a pro-Muslim
    ‘secular’ India as well – a double benefit for them. For all their demand for ‘minority
    rights’ they never oppose the plight of the Hindu minorities in the Islamic
    countries.

    5.      
    Had only Dr Swamy been injecting hatred against
    Islam in his economics classes, there would have been some justification
    against his sacking. Dr Swamy was bold enough to air his views; and there are
    billions who agree with him, but most of them do so in private.

    6.      
    If at all any religious community needs
    protection – in the global context, it’s the Hindus since they are a global
    minority – they lack the aggressiveness of the Muslims and the money of the
    Christian missionaries. Hindus have never attacked or forcibly colonized any
    other country.

    7.      
    Viewed from these and many other angles Dr Swamy’s
    prescription for Islamic terrorism in India could not be opposed or condemned.

    8.      
    If USA is really a democratic country, let
    Harvard revoke its sacking of Dr Swamy. Alternatively, may some other
    prestigious American university engage the services of Dr Swamy.

  • confusedethics

    THE REAL QUESTION IS IF HARVARD KNOWINGLY OR UNKNOWINGLY FALL PREY TO THE SINISTER DESIGNS OF THE 2G CORRUPT SCAMSTERS/LOOTERS TO AVENGE OR PUNISH DR.Swamy ON THE MEGA CORRUPTION BATTLE.
    Only a internal investigation in harvard will answer this.But this is what the unbiased media should call for.But this question should not remain unanswered.

    The op-ed article was just a pretext to throw out Dr. Swamy. Their concern for muslim is an eyewash.If there was no petrodollar, arabs would know camel is a better friend.
    The real reason is the 2G Scam.Dr. Swamy was the main petitioner in the supreme court of India, making sure that It is the greatest scam on earth, and thanks to the honest officers in Indian government including Mr. Aseervatham Achary, Journalist Mr.Gopikumar, News paper Daily pioneer, CAG Vinod Rai, Mr. Bhushan and Dr. Swamy.
    If not for Dr. Swamy and Mr. Bhushan the corrupt polticians who instigated this would have had a free run with 40 billion dollars from the state exchequer.However now one by one are going to prison, thanks to the supreme court of India.
    Even the media which was the fourth pillar was part of this scam. They report it very biased and hesitantly for they do not want to face the anger of the ruling and part because of their involvement.
    However it has not been easy for those fighting the corruption. Mr. Bhushan was blackmailed with concoted tape, Mr. Hazare who wanted to bring bill to accountability in indian investigation agency was mudslinged, Baba Ramdev a yogi was brutally attacked when he raised the question of corrupt black money of the ruling class stashed in the Swiss banks. Now it is Dr.Swamy ‘s turn.

  • NM

    Harvard’s hasty and nasty decision has caused lot more social (network) unrest than the presumed social unrest Dr. Swamy’s article may cause.

  • Yeskay

    Meghna – I did not receive any response for this feedback and hence again putting it up for your view 
    Meghna ,It was a good show and Radio Boston has become a favorite in India now because of this indepth Program. My tweet was read out and I thank you for that. But a feedbackProf Lewis was all grace but was opposed to procedure-He did not take a view on Dr Swamy’s thoughts-fine enough but one more panelist assessing Dr Swamy to counter Diana Eck would be in order,since Dr Swamy was not in a postion to counter Diana Eck. Also if you had brought one more call in programmer for a Hindu perspective it would have been better since twitter is just 140 ch and not same impact as a voice callHope you would respond to my suggestionsTruenationalist 

    • Meghna Chakrabarti

      Yeskay,

      You raise a good question about guesting. My simple answer is that we chose to focus the conversation on the issue of free speech on campus (hence my repeated rhetorical question on air: “How broad a universe of ideas should be welcomed at a university?”). I understand that it’s only one subset of issues in this very complicated topic, but it’s the one we could give a good treatment in the context of Wednesday’s program.

      Had we chosen to follow the question of Indian history, of course we would have included a scholar of Indian history to offer a different opinion from Prof. Eck. But again, that was not the primary focus of this conversation.

      Also, about callers. Yes, I do wish we could have taken more callers. This is something of a wildcard – you can never predict who calls in. We simply try to put the best (most cogent) calls on air that fit into the flow of the conversation as it’s happening live. It’s something of a dance. Never perfect. But we strive to do our best.

      • Sivaram7

        When you bring Diana Eck for a debate then you should have brought in a Swamy supporter no matter what you are concentrating in the debate.

  • Amol

    Everyone, stop bashing Meghna… she is the girl of Indian origin with most beautiful US accents… romance apart, Diana Eck betrays her own claimed principles when she acts against Dr. Swamy.

    She writes: The language of pluralism is that of dialogue and encounter, give and take, criticism and self-criticism. Dialogue means both speaking and listening, and that process reveals both common understandings and real differences. Dialogue does not mean everyone at the “table” will agree with one another. Pluralism involves the commitment to being at the table – with one’s commitments.

    This writing of her doesn’t suggest any “action” to be taken against the ideas at the “table” that you don’t agree with. So why Dr. Swamy was fired ?

    • Meghna Chakrabarti

      Amol – Not to worry. I don’t feel bashed at all. Nothing wrong with passionate conversation. This comment thread has been a vigorous, wonderful forum.

  • http://twitter.com/Argus_I HarUp

    Hats of to Meghna for her measured, mature and sensible responses in this thread. Her argument for having kept the cross-hair steadily fixed on the core issue is an apposite one, given the constraints of time. Her moderation of the debate was very balanced and her questions were sharp and pertinent. Yes a lot more could have been done, but there is always the issue of logistics. However, she does acknowledge the enthusiastic and passionate feedback of the listeners and she must be commended for that. Full plaudits to her. She is an A1 anchor! And thanks to her team at Boston Radio for airing the debate.

  • Philly

    Its outrageous and shameful to see that
    self-proclaimed South Asian experts like Diana Eck who have absolutely
    no idea of the very intricate fabric of the local dynamics can vote out a
    faculty member in a free democratic country for having expressed his
    thoughts in his own free democratic country. Absolutely shameful and
    disgusting!!! Harvard university president ought to be held accountable
    for allowing such stupid and hateful decisions by its staff and sack
    them first. Call and email the president Drew Faust with your protests
    today: (617) 495-1502, president@harvard.edu

    Start the SACK ECK campaign folks!

  • http://twitter.com/Great_Gujarati An outlaw

    Wow, Diana Eck has the balls to say “Hindu Thugs” on your Radio Show. She didn’t say thugs but rather used the word “Hindu Thugs”. And even more I am surprised because nobody even pointed out that to her.  Now, that’s what I call a hate speech. In her own language, “how would all Hindus feel now ? This can force Hindus to cause riots. That’s a sweeping statement on the whole Hindu community”. Now, I am waiting for her to get the same treatment from the so called *Harvard*. How would she feel if she gets the same treatment as the Danish cartoonists got. But don’t worry, she won’t because Hindus are damn tolerant bunch. But the fault is ours because we have taken the meaning of Sanatana Dhrama to a whole new different level. Only because of which, India welcomed all kinds of religion and even protected them. And the end result, people like Diana Eck & her Sick-ular gangs are now dancing on us. 

    Last but not least, we, Hindus (in your own language, “Hindu Thugs”) are not the same anymore. Don’t try to interfere in our internal affairs. Whoever you may be, if need be, we will retaliate, retaliate hard.

  • Sikhars

    Dear Meghna,
                               I would like to thank you for bringing up this issue to the public forum. Although I admit the article written by Dr. Swamy is controversial and personally, I do not agree to some of his suggestions. However, the manner in which some Profesors with vested interests have sacked him, is despicable. In any form of jurisprudence, if the accused is not given an opportunity to defend himself/herself, then that is not justice but the worst form of authoritarianism. Such incidents occur in the Kangaroo courts organized by the Left-radical terrorist organization “Maoists” in the inaccessible hinterlands of India and to the innocent women in the male chauvinistic societies in the Islamic world, who are routinely and most of the times, falsely accused of having adulterous relationships. What horrifies me to death is, that such murder of free speech and justice has happened in a pristine university like Harvard. This incident makes me believe that the criticism of Harvard University by the conservatives, especially here in Texas, may actually be valid and justified. Lastly, I would again congratulate you for your fair and unbiased moderation during the whole debate and if some of the comments made by my friends in your panel, transgressed the norms demarcated by you, I apologize sincerely on their behalf.
    Thanking you,
    yours sincerely,
    Sikhar Banerjee

  • Ramesh Iyer

    Megna,
    Good job here but for the wrong comparison, but i understand you have apologized for it. I really wish you could’ve done this interview with Dr. Swamy live rather than a recorded version, as most of what Eck said is patently false and highly ill-informed. Dr. Swamy would have taken her to the launderers, but i also understand the logistics issue of time difference. 

     A simple question (which i did on twitter) i would’ve posed to her is why is her dept. chose to  accept millions of $ from Prince of Saudi, who are 1 of the worst human rights violators leave alone their barbaric system of justice? Just to let you know, an Indian cannot even celebrate diwali INSIDE their homes leave alone outside. How come Saudi has demolished many mosques for road development while Eck says its not right to do in India. This reeks of crass hypocrisy.

    • Meghna Chakrabarti

      Hello there. Thanks for listening. Just to let you know – we weren’t able to conduct the interview live with Mr. Swamy because of the time difference. He was in Dehli at the time. Also, I did ask Prof. Eck about Harvard’s acceptance of $20 million dollars from Prince Alwaleed bin Talal. It was one of the final questions posed in the interview.

  • huyogisays

    Those theorists defending ‘free speech’ in this case have no idea of the repercussions should those rabid ideas advocated be ever implemented or the cost to human lives that could result. They should get their heads out of the clouds, step out of their ivory towers and think like human beings first. One thing nobody disputes and is certain about here, is that S Swamy is a hateful bigot, and his views are repugnant to civilized society and democracy.

    • Raja

      Are you threating about the repercussions of ‘free speech’, we are glad there are people like Dr. Swamy who does not fear losing life nor tries to sound politically correct.

      You need to make visit to the 150+ Terrorists Camps in Pakistan and PoK and teach them to think like Human Beings. Dr. Swamy is teaching the same in India who seemed to be influenced the Pakistani Millitant propaganda.

      People who view Dr. Swamy’s speech as hateful are bigots, who have no empathy for the victims of Terror Attacks!
       

    • bharathapurusha

      the vermin has infested here too!

  • Guest

    Diana Eck associated with India studies for more than 28 year, than she should know what happened during 1990 in Kashmir. All mosque started preaching hatred against Kashmiri pundits.

    In 1948, Javaharlal Nehru (first prime minister of India) also made same speech at Allahabad University convocation that, all Indian Muslims have Hindu ancestry. By proving same ancestry Dr. Swamy want to prove that, there is no need to fight against each other.

    By the way Diana Eck made hate speech by calling “Hindu Thug”, does she dare to call 9/11 terrorist a “Muslim Terrorists”  without loosing 20 million Saudi (9/11 attackers were mostly Saudi ) endowment?? if you meet her again please ask her this question.

  • huyogisays

    But they were just that, “Hindu thugs”, what else would anyone call them?

    • Raja

      The Babri Mosque was build illegally after brutaly demolishing the temple at that site by Islam Fanatics. The Mosque was the symbol of Islamic Extremism.

      It’s been centuries, since people have been requesting of justice by restoring the temple!

    • http://twitter.com/rameshnswamy Ramesh

      so what you’d call Kasab, Geelani, Afzal Guru? Patriots? martyrs? you bigot

  • huyogisays

    Which of those thugs has come forward and taken responsibility for that act of vandalism yet? If they cannot do that, clearly it was an illegal act performed by cowards taking refuge in legal loopholes.

    • Guest

      well than who were 9/11 terrorists …!!! … Muslim fanatics !!

  • huyogisays

    How is that even remotely relevant?

    • Guest

      replace 9/11 attackers with 11/26/2008 Mumbai attackers (one of them still lives by name Kasab). Now its highly relevant  …. !!

      9/11 reference was for Diana Eck.

  • huyogisays

    I am sorry, it’s still not relevant, all i detect is a hatred of Muslims, Islamophobia and an immature attempt to play the dirty politics post any terror attack, to justify atrocities and human rights violations.

    • Raja

      It may look like hatred to you since you are not one of the victims of the Islamic Terror Attacks happening in India all through the year. It is rather the ‘hurt’ sentiments of the people in India which was being addressed by Dr. Swamy.

      Islmophobia may be correct in American context (post 9/11), where the Muslim Population is just 0.6%

      In India The Muslim population is now over 20%, and Islamic conquest has been ongoing for over a 1000 years.

    • guest

      go and talk to Jonia Kandhi about it. no one cares about you here.

    • http://twitter.com/rameshnswamy Ramesh

      all terror attacks on innocent people in India has be perpetrated by muslims from across the border or internally.

  • huyogisays

    And i say you are a bunch of bigoted fruitcakes who haven’t gotten over the Mughal rule and inferiority complex inherited from your ancestors, which btw seems to have conveniently skipped any memories all feelings of hurt from the British regime.

    • Raja

      Saudi Arabian authorities have destoryed over 400 Islamic sites including Mosques without any repercussion, since they beleive preserving a Mosque is against Islam and resembles Idol worship.

      Why is it a problem when one illegal Babri Mosque is demolished in India, while there is no voice raised against several temples destroyed in India and neighboring Pakistan, Bangladesh and even Malayasia!

      The Archaeological Survey conducted on multiple occasions and various intervals revealed the temple existed in the site!

    • Desiaatma

      Bigote can spot bigotry quickly

    • http://twitter.com/rameshnswamy Ramesh

      the mugals who invaded india are not called rulers but rapists, plunderers & murderous barbarians in the  name of Allah!? U think that can be wiped out from our memories that easily?

  • huyogisays

    Firstly, that was the age of conquests and kingdoms and religious wars, we live in civilized times now, there can be no justification for the repeating the same acts of vandalism even if that were true. Secondly, it has been shown that the findings of the Archaeological Survey of India of India were fudged and in reality there was no such temple in existence at the site.     

    were fud

    • ramappiah

      “we live in civilized times now”… surely the commendable accomplishments of islamofascists (which btw is what this whole thing is all about) must be the hallmark of this civilization! 

    • http://twitter.com/IyerSpeaks panchajanya

      Can you also endorse that 1800s was the century of castism, and we live in a much more civilized society, and hence there must be caste/religion based reservations?

    • http://twitter.com/rameshnswamy Ramesh

      if so why do ur bretheren from across the border come and kill people in India in the name of Allah!?

  • http://twitter.com/IyerSpeaks panchajanya

    I do not understand which part of this writing was objectionable. Most  Muslims of India have have Hindu ancestors, and denying that shows an intention to purposefully disconnect one from the roots, and the purpose, is most certainly malicious. Besides, its denying the truth. Secondly, a temple for a Hindu is a holy place, and the God is invited to reside there. For that reason, a temple cannot be relocated. A Mosque however is a place of worship. Besides Islam itself states that a mosque built on the ruins of temples of other religions is UnIslamic. Hence when found to be built over a temple, there is no reason why the mosque may not be dislocated, and why a new temple may not be rebuilt. All of my arguments have been derived from several of the Supreme Court Judgements here in India, or from well known writings independent of Swamy’s. 

  • huyogisays

    You seem to have buried your heads in the sand and made up your minds, this debate won’t go any further then, it’s futile to try reasoning with fanatics like you in that case.

    • guest

      then just shut up and get lost

  • huyogisays

    Why do you keep reverting back to Saudi Arabia and what goes on there to defend your warped logic, how is that relevant to India?

    • Raja

      Harvard took action on India based on the Global context, hence the scope of the discussion becomes Global too!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_S65RBEEMYRFYVMJZMRRADQMMAI gardenia

    I find the professor’s ideas kind of refreshing seeing as Islam vows to convert the entire world.  And if that dreadful event should ever happen, it will be the end of civilization.  Islamofascism has no place here or anywhere.  Let them have a few barbecued spare ribs.  Good for digestion.

  • Jarjunmpradhant

    Dr. Swamy is crusading for the right cause and thus for global harmony by fighting all the evils of religious and economic terrorism. He hails from the land of Hindus who never believed in the concept of religion but believed only the concept of acceptance as a result of which the subcontinent is the greatest example of harmoniously co-existing diversities. There are far better people in the villages of india with the knowledge of sanskrit than the entire harvard or any other US institution and Indians are hardly concerned about that. We have survived more than 1000 years of slaughter and loot and yet we stand today high in the global arena dignified and most importantly we respect others unlike others.  Diana Eck and all such fools must not be considered seriously. People know the truth and people will act accordingly- Time will only answer. 

  • huyogisays

    Without a doubt, reservations should given only  on the basis of economic status, income,  and/or  physical disabilities.

  • Sivaram

    I find it astonishing that the moderator did not ask Diana Eck how she can say Hindu thugs and slander an entire community. Will Ms. Eck call queen Isabella a Christian thug? And will Harvard fire her for slandering a billion Hindus?

  • Raj

    This is a response to ‘huyogisays’. Ayodhya is one of the foremost riligious sites for Hindus. Ayodhya’s status (as well as Mathura’s and Varanasi’s) is somewhat akin to Mecca’s or Medina’s, as a holy city. There is not even an iota of doubt that established temples were destroyed, perhaps significant blood letting occurred, and mosques were built by barbaric Muslim invaders on the ruins of those temples. Similar temple demolition occurred at thousands of other sites. A section of Hindus expect, as a token of reasonableness, from Muslims to gracefully return the three temple sites at Ayodhya, Mathura and Varanasi. About 30 % of all Hindus regularly vote for the Bharatiya Janata Party – so this section of Hindus is certainly not insignificant in number, perhaps larger than 30%. This expectation from Hindus is quite reasonable. And, why would decent Muslims even would like to visit and pray in such mosques, built on the blood of innocent Hindus?

    • http://twitter.com/banindya Anindya Bhattacharya

      the best part of your argument  “…And, why would decent Muslims even would like to visit and pray in such mosques, built on the blood of innocent Hindus?”

      Can’t Muslims  declare that Mosques built on temples are not fit for praying? 

  • Raj

    This is a response to ‘huyogisays’. Ayodhya is one of the foremost religious sites for Hindus. Ayodhya’s status (as well as Mathura’s and Varanasi’s) is somewhat akin to Mecca’s or Medina’s, as a holy city. There is not even an iota of doubt that established temples were destroyed, perhaps significant blood letting occurred, and mosques were built by barbaric Muslim invaders on the ruins of those temples. Destruction of temples at Ayodhya, Mathura and Varanasi were ‘valued’ most highly by these invaders. Similar temple demolition occurred at thousands of other sites. A section of Hindus expect, as a token of reasonableness, from Muslims to gracefully return the three temple sites at Ayodhya, Mathura and Varanasi. About 30 % of all Hindus regularly vote for the Bharatiya Janata Party – so this section of Hindus is certainly not insignificant in number, perhaps larger than 30%. This expectation from Hindus is quite reasonable. And, why would decent Muslims even would like to visit and pray in such mosques, built on the blood of innocent Hindus?

    LIKE
    REPLY

    • Mitesh

      Watch this documentary on History of Ayodhya. Very descriptive, from the time it was built, to destroyed by Muslim Invaders, how babari masjid was constructed, to archeological evidence, to destruction of babari masjid. Watch to clear your doubts.  Ayodhya is legitimate right of Hindus. Those opposing it still considers themselves has heir to Muslim legacy of suppressing the Hindus in all fronts.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lXOKadb19E

  • Abc

    2G – Sonia G and Rahul G

  • http://twitter.com/rameshnswamy Ramesh

    I rest my case: What would Eck call this? Islamists exercising their rights?

    Muzaffarnagar: Leading
    Islamic seminary Darul Uloom Deoband has issued a fatwa against
    manufacturing and selling of firecrackers, saying it was against Sharia
    law.

    Manufacturing and selling of firecrackers is against
    Sharia law, and bursting of crackers is misuse of money, the
    fatwa said, adding that men who misuse money are the “brothers
    of devil.”

    The fatwa was issued on a query from a man involved in
    the business of manufacturing firecrackers.

    A large number of Muslims are involved in manufacturing
    firecrackers in the country.

    PTI

  • huyogisays

    @Meghna Chakraborti, There, the evidence is right here, you can see the kind of savages that comprise his following and the bigotry and hate he engenders with Hindu right wing  propaganda and distortions of facts and history.

    • Raj

      Mr. Huyogisays,

      1. I did not see any savages here. You, Sir, are also not a savage. You are ignorant (as you don’t know history or you willfully deny it.) You make baseless allegations against some other people on this forum that they are bigots and liars. But, I respect your right to express freely, and, in fact, I bet many in this forum will stand up to defend this right of yours if that was ever in any danger.

      2. What right wing? What propaganda? Some people on this forum see a historical problem, state the facts related to the problem, and hope for its solution. With that in mind, they seek to interact with some other people who have differing views. That’s all.

  • Constructingdestroyed

    If mosques/tombs destroyed by wahibis were restored, and the entire muslims rejoiced, Explain why hindu structures if proven to be destroyed by the same  could not be restored.
    Will diana eck also brand the shites who want things reconstructed as dangerous???
    Will the so called huyogis oppose the reconstruction of bahamanian Buddhas or even the world trade center???
    I do not know why they bring the jews into their petition. I did not have anything to with the petition signed by the shias.
    Please read the part of petition yourself. “In 1221, the Wahhabis entered Madina to desecrate al-Baqi as well as every mosque they came across. An attempt was even made to demolish the Prophet’s tomb, but for one reason or another, the idea was abandoned. Al-Baqi was razed to the ground, with no sign of any grave or tomb whatsoever. But the Saudis were still not quite satisfied with doing all of that. Their king ordered three black attendants at the Prophet’s shrine to show him where the treasure of valuable gifts were stored. The Wahhabis plundered the treasure for their own use. Thousands of Muslims fled Makkah and Madina in a bid to save their lives and escape from the mounting pressure and persecution at the hands of the Wahhabis. Muslims from all over the world denounced this Saudi savagery and exhorted the Caliphate of the Ottoman Empire to save the sacred shrines from total destruction. Then, as it is known, Muhammad Ali Basha attacked Hijaz and, with the support of local tribes, managed to restore law and order in Madina and Makkah, dislodging the Al-Saud clansmen. The entire Muslim world celebrated this victory with great fanfare and rejoicing. In Cairo, the celebrations continued for five days. No doubt, the joy was due to the fact that pilgrims were once more allowed freely to go for Hajj, and the sacred shrines were once again restored. In 1818 AD, the Ottaman Caliph Abdul Majid and his successors, Caliphs Abdul Hamid and Mohammed, carried out the reconstruction of all sacred places, restoring the Islamic heritage at all important sites. In 1848 and 1860 AD, further renovations were made at the expense of nearly seven hundred thousand pounds, most of which came from the donations collected at the Prophet’s tomb. ” Here is the whole petition: Re Build JANAT-UL-BAQI & JANAT-UL-MOALAPublished June 16, 2005Janat-ul-Baqi is a graveyard in Saudia Arabia’s city MADINA…near The shrine Of Prophet Hazrat Mohammad saww.There r many TOMBS & SHRINES Of Muslim Founders & spiritual leadors…but in 1925 Saudi GOV..demolish them..now there r only graves…no tombs on them…but SHIA MUSLIMS from all over the world wants to rebuild JANAT UL BAQI..JANAT UL MOALA is a graveyard in Saudia Arabia’s city MECCA…same story here…and SHIA MUSLIMS from all over the world wants to rebuild JANAT UL MOALA…..click on this link to see the pictures of JANAT UL BAQIhttp://www.yazehra.com/jav… Here Is The History Of Janat Ul BAQI…HISTORY OF THE CEMETERY OF JANNAT AL-BAQI THE HOLY PLACE WHERE Hazrat Fatima Zahra sa IMAM HASAN B. ALI (2ND IMAM), IMAM ALI B. AL-HUSAYN (4TH IMAM), IMAM MUHAMMAD B. ALI (5TH IMAM), & IMAM JA’FAR B. MUHAMMAD (6TH IMAM), PEACE BE UPON THEM, ARE BURIED ——————————————————————————–On 8th Shawwal, Wednesday, in the year 1345 AH (April 21, 1925), mausoleums in Jannatul al-Baqi (Madina) were demolished by King Ibn Saud. In the same year (1925), he also demolished the tombs of holy personages at Jannat al-Mualla (Makkah) where the Holy Prophet (s)’s mother, wife, grandfather and other ancestors are buried. Destruction of sacred sites in Hijaz by the Saudi Wahhabis continues even today. According to some scholars what is happening in Hijaz is actually a conspiracy plotted by the Jews against Islam, under the guise of Tawheed. The idea is to eradicate the Islamic legacy and heritage and to systematically remove all its vestiges so that in the days to come, Muslims will have no affiliation with their religious history. ——————————————————————————–The Origins of Al-Baqi Literally “al-Baqi” means a tree garden. It is also known as “Jannat al-Baqi” due to its sanctity, since in it are buried many of our Prophet’s relatives and companions. The first companion buried in al-Baqi was Uthman b. Madhoon who died on the 3rd of Sha’ban in the 3rd year of Hijrah. The Prophet (s) ordered certain trees to be felled, and in its midst, he buried his dear companion, placing two stones over the grave. On the following years, the Prophet’s son Ibrahim, who died in infancy and over whom the Prophet (s) wept bitterly, was also buried there. The people of Madina then began to use that site for the burial of their own dead, because the Prophet (s) used to greet those who were buried in al-Baqi by saying, “Peace be upon you, O abode of the faithful! God willing, we should soon join you. O’ Allah, forgive the fellows of al-Baqi”. The site of the burial ground at al-Baqi was gradually extended. Nearly seven thousand companions of the Holy Prophet (s) were buried there, not to mention those of the Ahlul Bayt (a). Imam Hasan b. Ali (a), Imam Ali b. al-Husayn (a), Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (a), and Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (a) were all buried there. Among other relatives of the Prophet (s) who were buried at al-Baqi are: his aunts Safiya and Aatika, and his aunt Fatima bint al-Asad, the mother of Imam Ali (a). The third caliph Uthman was buried outside al-Baqi, but with later extensions, his grave was included in the area. In later years, great Muslim scholars like Malik bin Anas and many others, were buried there too. Thus, did al-Baqi become a well-known place of great historic significance to all Muslims. Al-Baqi as viewed by historians Umar bin Jubair describes al-Baqi as he saw it during his travel to Madina, saying “Al-Baqi is situated to the east of Madina. You enter it through the gate known as the gate of al-Baqi. As you enter, the first grave you see on your left is that of Safiya, the Prophet’s aunt, and further still is the grave of Malik bin Anas, the Imam of Madina. On his grave is raised a small dome. In front of it is the grave of Ibrahim son of our Prophet (s) with a white dome over it, and next to it on the right is the grave of Abdul-Rahman son of Umar bin al-Khattab, popularly known as Abu Shahma, whose father had kept punishing him till death overtook him. Facing it are the graves of Aqeel bin Abi Talib and Abdullah bin Ja’far al-Tayyar. There, facing those graves is a small shrine containing the graves of the Prophet’s wives, following by a shrine of Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib. The grave of Hasan bin Ali (a), situated near the gate to it’s right hand, has an elevated dome over it. His head lies at the feet of Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib, and both graves are raised high above the ground, their walls are panelled with yellow plates and studded with beautiful star-shaped nails. This is how the grave of Ibrahim, son of the Prophet (s) has also been adorned. Behind the shrine of Abbas there is the house attributed to Fatima, daughter of our Prophet (s), known as “Bayt al-Ahzaan” (the house of grief) because it is the house she used to frequent in order to mourn the death of her father, the chosen one, peace be upon him. At the farthest end of al-Baqi is the grave of the caliph Uthman, with a small dome over it, and there, next to it, is the grave of Fatima bint Asad, mother of Ali b. Abi Talib (a)” After a century and a half, the famous traveller Ibn Batuta came to describe al-Baqi in a way which does not in any way differ from the description given by Ibn Jubair. He adds saying, “At al-Baqi are the graves of numerous Muhajirin and Ansar and many companions of the Prophet (s), except that most of their names are unknown.” Thus, over the centuries, al-Baqi remained a sacred site with renovations being carried out as and when needed till the Wahhabis rose to power in the early nineteenth century. The latter desecrated the tombs and demonstrated disrespect to the martyrs and the companions of the Prophet (s) buried there. Muslims who disagreed with them were branded as “infidels” and were subsequently killed. The First Destruction of Al-BaqiThe Wahhabis believed that visiting the graves and the shrines of the Prophets, the Imams, or the saints was a form of idolatry and totally un-Islamic. Those who did not conform with their belief were killed and their property was confiscated. Since their first invasion of Iraq, and till nowadays, in fact, the Wahhabis, as well as other rulers of the Gulf States, having been carrying out massacres from which no Muslim who disagreed with them was spared. Obviously, the rest of the Islamic World viewed those graves with deep reverence. Had it not been so, the two caliphs Abu Bakr and Umar would not have expressed their desire for burial near the grave of the Prophet (s). From 1205 AH to 1217 AH, the Wahhabis made several attempts to gain a foothold in Hijaz but failed. Finally, in 1217 AH, they somehow emerged victorious in Taif where they spilled the innocent blood of Muslims. In 1218 AH, they entered Makkah and destroyed all sacred places and domes there, including the one which served as a canopy over the well of Zamzam. In 1221, the Wahhabis entered Madina to desecrate al-Baqi as well as every mosque they came across. An attempt was even made to demolish the Prophet’s tomb, but for one reason or another, the idea was abandoned. In subsequent years, Muslims from Iraq, Syria, and Egypt were refused entry into Makkah for Hajj. King Al-Saud set a pre-condition that those who wished to perform the pilgrimage would have to accept Wahhabism or else be branded as non-Muslims, becoming ineligible for entry into the Haram. Al-Baqi was razed to the ground, with no sign of any grave or tomb whatsoever. But the Saudis were still not quite satisfied with doing all of that. Their king ordered three black attendants at the Prophet’s shrine to show him where the treasure of valuable gifts were stored. The Wahhabis plundered the treasure for their own use. Thousands of Muslims fled Makkah and Madina in a bid to save their lives and escape from the mounting pressure and persecution at the hands of the Wahhabis. Muslims from all over the world denounced this Saudi savagery and exhorted the Caliphate of the Ottoman Empire to save the sacred shrines from total destruction. Then, as it is known, Muhammad Ali Basha attacked Hijaz and, with the support of local tribes, managed to restore law and order in Madina and Makkah, dislodging the Al-Saud clansmen. The entire Muslim world celebrated this victory with great fanfare and rejoicing. In Cairo, the celebrations continued for five days. No doubt, the joy was due to the fact that pilgrims were once more allowed freely to go for Hajj, and the sacred shrines were once again restored. In 1818 AD, the Ottaman Caliph Abdul Majid and his successors, Caliphs Abdul Hamid and Mohammed, carried out the reconstruction of all sacred places, restoring the Islamic heritage at all important sites. In 1848 and 1860 AD, further renovations were made at the expense of nearly seven hundred thousand pounds, most of which came from the donations collected at the Prophet’s tomb. The second plunder by the WahhabisThe Ottoman Empire had added to the splendor of Madina and Makkah by building religious structures of great beauty and architectural value. Richard Burton, who visited the holy shrines in 1853 AD disguised as an Afghan Muslim and adopting the Muslim name Abdullah, speaks of Madina boasting 55 mosques and holy shrines. Another English adventurer who visited Madina in 1877-1878 AD describes it as a small beautiful city resembling Istanbul. He writes about its white walls, golden slender minarets and green fields. 1924 AD Wahhabis entered Hijaz for a second time and carried out another merciless plunder and massacre. People in streets were killed. Houses were razed to the ground. Women and children too were not spared. Awn bin Hashim (Shairf of Makkah) writes: “Before me, a valley appeared to have been paved with corpses, dried blood staining everywhere all around. There was hardly a tree which didn’t have one or two dead bodies near its roots.” 1925 Madina surrendered to the Wahhabi onslaught. All Islamic heritage were destroyed. The only shrine that remained intact was that of the Holy Prophet (s). Ibn Jabhan says: “We know that the tomb standing on the Prophet’s grave is against our principles, and to have his grave in a mosque is an abominable sin.” Tombs of Hamza and other martyrs were demolished at Uhud. The Prophet’s mosque was bombarded. On protest by Muslims, assurances were given by Ibn Saud that it will be restored but the promise was never fulfilled. A promise was given that Hijaz will have an Islamic multinational government. This was also abandoned. 1925 AD Jannat al-Mu’alla, the sacred cemetery at Makkah was destroyed alongwith the house where the Holy Prophet (s) was born. Since then, this day is a day of mourning for all Muslims. Is it not strange that the Wahhabis find it offensive to have the tombs, shrines and other places of importance preserved, while the remains of their Saudi kings are being guarded at the expense of millions of dollars? Protest from Indian Muslims1926, protest gatherings were held by shocked Muslims all over the world. Resolutions were passed and a statement outlining the crimes perpetrated by Wahhabis was issued and included the following: The destruction and desecration of the holy places i.e. the birth place of the Holy Prophet [s], the graves of Banu Hashim in Makkah and in Jannat al-Baqi (Madinah), the refusal of the Wahhabis to allow Muslims to recite Ziyarah or Surah al-Fatiha at those graves. The destruction of the places of worship i.e. Masjid Hamza, Masjid Abu Rasheed, in addition to the tombs of Imams and Sahaba (Prophet’s companions). Interference in the performance of Hajj rituals. Forcing the Muslims to follow the Wahhabis innovations and to abandon their own ways according to the guidance of the Imams they follow. The massacre of sayyids in Taif, Madina, Ahsa, and Qatif. The demolition of the grave of the Imams at al-Baqi which deeply offended and grieved all Shias. Protest from other countriesSimilar protests were lodged by Muslims in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Indonesia, and Turkey. All of them condemn the Saudi Wahhabis for their barbaric acts. Some scholars wrote tracts and books to tell the world the fact that what was happening in Hijaz was actually a conspiracy plotted by the Jews against Islam, under the guise of Tawheed. The idea was to eradicate the Islamic legacy and heritage and to systematically remove all its vestiges so that in the days to come, Muslims will have no affiliation with their religious history. A partial list of the demolished graves and shrines Al-Mualla graveyard in Makkah which includes the grave of Sayyida Khadija bint Khuwailid (a), wife of the Prophet (s), the grave of Amina bint Wahab, mother of the Prophet (s), the grave of Abu Talib, father of Imam Ali (a), and the grave of Abdul Muttalib, grandfather of the Prophet (s) The grave of Hawa (Eve) in Jeddah The grave of the father of the Prophet (s) in Madina The house of sorrows (bayt al-Ahzan) of Sayyida Fatima (a) in Madina The Salman al-Farsi mosque in Madina The Raj’at ash-Shams mosque in Madina The house of the Prophet (s) in Madina, where he lived after migrating from Makkah The house of Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (a) in Madina The complex (mahhalla) of Banu Hashim in Madina The house of Imam Ali (a) where Imam Hasan (a) and Imam Husayn (a) were born The house of Hamza and the graves of the martyrs of Uhud (a) Thx Wa salam By Shia Of AhliBait as     

  • huyogisays

    The concept of ‘righting historical wrongs’, is ridiculous and vindictive, especially so, when those wrongs are fictitious and part of a sustained campaign of lies and propaganda designed to establish Hindu supremacy and malign other communities. It is no secret that that is what the RSS and other fringe lunatic organizations doing since years pursuant to their fantasy of some Hindu land. It is no secret that such propaganda has been used to win elections and stir up a frenzy of pseudo-nationalism among people like you, people who gloat in private when Muslims are massacred en masse, when their places of worship are demolished by barbaric vandals and who consider it to be some sort of justice for some real or imaginary wrong done to them under Islamic rule ages ago. And if you still deny it than you are indeed a bigot and a hypocrite.

    • Raja

      I guess you have not read through all the comments on this topic in this page.

      People have been talking about incidents from as early as year 1000 and as recent as year 2011 Mumbai Blasts following Dr. Swamy wrote the article in DNA newspaper.

      You are trying to malalign the discussion by random thoughts, if you really interested in debating and not confusing people like Diana Eck, then you need just follow a single thread, instead of spamming the page!

    • agastya80

      I have not seen any distorted facts, lies or half-truths on a quick reading down the entire thread (other than yours, of course). Please tell us which facts you disagree. Take your time, write in as much as detail you like, you will get a response – civilized and polite. If there are historical wrongs, one can seek those to be corrected in a non-violent way – that is the position I hold. 

      Where did you get this that some of the people in this forum gloat in private when Muslims are massacred? Now, that is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is the assertion at the end of the paragraph you wrote: ‘And if you still deny it than you are indeed a bigot and a hypocrite.’ So, if your opponent refutes the allegation that he gloats in private when Muslims are massacred, he/she is a bigot and a hypocrite. If he/she accepts, then, seems like in your view, he/she is not. Please work on making some sense in the future.

      Just a fact: Not a single muslim was killed by the passionate mob which had assembled in the month of December, 1992 and, as it turned out, demolished the disputed structure in Ayodhya.  Based on the information available in Press, physical violence against any other human beings has never been a part of the Sangh Parivar’s discourse – regardless of the opinions expressed by its political opponents. ‘Disclaimer: I have got nothing to do with any of  the organizations of Sangh Parivar. Leaders of Shiv Sena, Ram Sene, MNS, etc have made some ludicrous statements, but they do not belong to Sangh Parivar.’

      Please take your time, and submit your disagreements on the facts mentioned in the thread.

    • Peopledonotread

      Huyogi, Dr. Swamy is getting close to PC. Despite your words in twitter against Dr.Swamy for fighting the 2g scam, things are progressing in the right direction.

      Now first question to you is
      1) Did talibanis destory the world trade center and bahamanian buddhas?
      There are some lunatics even in prestigious university who think it was bought down by explosives by cheney and co. at the same time plane crashed. What i mean is for few lunatics there is no cure even you produce a peer reveiwed civil engineering  journal

      2) Do you believe FBI is infiltarting mosques and make young people terrorists and media makes a big deal of it.
      This kind of lunatics have no cure.

      3) Did the talibanis destroy the bahamanian buddhas

      4) Concept of righting historical wrong is ridiculous and vindictive.
      Did you tell it to the palestinians, and tell them to leave israel in peace.
      Why not consider swamy op-ed as historical and not be ridculous and vindictive like Diana Eck and co. It happened historically many months ago aftermath of terrorist incident.
      Murderers, rapists and theives will like your argument,as their crimes are usually historical, and not current

      5) How about the shia petition below which ask for reconstruction of destroyed mosque and tomb  sites in saudi? Arent they not supremcists

      6) Hindus gave muslims a whole nation pakisthan and bangldesh. What did hindus get in return?? Terrorist and seperatist camps, 3 wars.The world got the talibanis and the jihadis.
      If India was not divided in 1947, then there can be talk of some bargains. But here you  lose a large portion of the land, and then your holy places.
      Your arguments are like asking  Saudi to allow hindus to build a temple in Mecca and medina and christians to build a church as reciprcation for ayodhya and the 9/11 mosque.

      7) How about the kashmir pandits killed and thrown away from kashmir. Sorry they are like darfurs and not counted.

      8) Why was the supreme court verdict of uniform civil code in shah bano case rejected in 1990? This was the root cause of all the issues. In the matter to grab the vote bank the so called peculiars seculars instituted a new muslim personal law based on sharia for indian muslim.

      THE SHAH Bano case was a milestone in the Muslim women’s search
      for justice and the beginning of the political battle over personal law. A
      60-year-old woman went to court asking maintenance from her husband who had
      divorced her. The court ruled in her favour. Shah Bano was entitled to
      maintenance from her ex-husband under Section 125 of the Criminal Procedure Code
      (with an upper limit of Rs. 500 a month) like any other Indian woman. The
      judgment was not the first granting a divorced Muslim woman maintenance under
      Section 125. But a voluble orthodoxy deemed the verdict an attack on Islam.

      The Congress Government, panicky in an election year, caved in
      under the pressure of the orthodoxy. It enacted the Muslim Women (Protection of
      Rights on Divorce) Act, 1986. The most controversial provision of the Act was
      that it gave a Muslim woman the right to maintenance for the period of
      iddat (about three months) after the divorce, and shifted the onus of
      maintaining her to her relatives or the Wakf Board. The Act was seen as
      discriminatory as it denied divorced Muslim women the right to basic maintenance
      which women of other faiths had recourse to under secular law.

      9) Did you read the allahabad high court judgement. Oh no you do not believe in law, judiciary , archaeological evidence etc.Here it is

       1. Whether the disputed site is the birth place of Bhagwan Ram?
      The disputed site is the birth place of Lord Ram. Place of birth is a juristic person and is a deity. It is personified as the spirit of divine worshipped as birth place of Lord Rama as a child. Spirit of divine ever remains present every where at all times for any one to invoke at any shape or form in accordance with his own aspirations and it can be shapeless and formless also.
      2. Whether the disputed building was a mosque? When was it built? By whom?
      The disputed building was constructed by Babar, the year is not certain but it was built against the tenets of Islam. Thus, it cannot have the character of a mosque.
      3. Whether the mosque was built after demolishing a Hindu temple?
      The disputed structure was constructed on the site of old structure after demolition of the same. The Archaeological Survey of India has proved that the structure was a massive Hindu religious structure.

      4. What will be the status of the disputed site e.g. inner and outer courtyard?
      It is established that the property in suit is the site of Janm Bhumi of Ram Chandra Ji and Hindus in general had the right to worship Charan, Sita Rasoi, other idols and other object of worship existed upon the property in suit. It is also established that Hindus have been worshipping the place in dispute as Janm Sthan i.e. a birth place as deity and visiting it as a sacred place of pilgrimage as of right since time immemorial. After the construction of the disputed structure it is proved the deities were installed inside the disputed structure on 22/23.12.1949. It is also proved that the outer courtyard was in exclusive possession of Hindus and they were worshipping throughout and in the inner courtyard (in the disputed structure) they were also worshipping. It is also established that the disputed structure cannot be treated as a mosque as it came into existence against the tenets of Islam.

      Hindu land was real secular. Iran was invaded by the muslims. Zorostranisim was wiped out. Guess they were given shelter by Hindu King. No one attacked them or terrorised them. Nor did they destroy a temple to build a place of worship to show their supremacy.In fact the current Indians are thankful to the king and parsis for they are the industrial enterrenurs.

      Jewish magazines have praised India as the only land where there was no antisemitism. This is because there was no conversion. Jews did not destroy any temple.How come there is Dalai lama driven out from tibets. India was the only counrty which gave him asylum, and had to face the wreath of china and lose its lands.

  • NM

    Meghna, kudos for conducting the show in a balanced manner. Your show on Radio Boston seems to have started a raging FIRE (!) on upholding protection of free speech; http://thefire.org/public/pdfs/c1ceec110be6091ed483126fca6dee19.pdf?direc

  • Anonymous

    Glad Radio Boston thought of covering such an important topic.  

    It’d be great if you can run a sequel capturing the feedback you’ve received and also hold a structured live debate or if that’s difficult at least a written debate exploring the historical context, current realities and analysis of the actual article. Boston radio can provide the platform for a serious debate if Harvard doesn’t.Its also important in such endeavors to differentiate people from ideology. So Islam should be differentiated from muslims. Depending on where they live, their innate values, social upbringing, people adopt different aspects/versions of an ideology.Few important questions to be answered.1. How are Indian muslims different from Pakistani or other muslims? What do they think is their ancestry? How do they view history of Islam in India? 2. Does it makes sense to talk about multiculturalism when we see that muslims seek understanding when in minority but deny the same to others when in majority (even in pockets)? 3. What is the goal of islamic terrorists? How to counter it?Answers to these questions are important to evolve a way to understand differences, develop mutual respect (not just tolerance, [would you like to be tolerated or respected?]) and evolve a framework to live in harmony.Unfortunately South Asian Studies have all become centers for preparing sales material to aid evangelical activities and soul harvesters. Not surprising looking at the source of their funding. Most SAS academicians from the 60s and 70s are heavily invested in antiquated subjects/theories and to eke out a living they continue to concoct ‘selling points’ as required  by their paymasters. Its indeed unpalatable when they realize that their life’s work –  the source of their livelihood and social standing – is rendered obsolete by newer research findings.  So I can understand their predicament but cannot respect it.Its up to the decision makers at Harvard to accept money from any source, fire/hire anyone they wish as long as they are transparent about their affiliations.  But then what irks is the moralizing from peddlers of  prejudicial stories like Diana Eck as if what she did was for the higher purpose of upholding free speech.   I pity her students who pay a lot of money to join Harvard.  After completing the course, all they can hope to achieve is join the bubble, pat each other’s back on their ‘scholarship,’ propagate the same outdated ideas or start their own ministry. 

    • huyogisays

      “ Not surprising looking at the
      source of their funding” – your insinuation that any fundings from
      Islamic nations are automatically tainted suggests a deep rooted
      prejudice that belies any pretense at objectivity that you profess,
      and what exactly are these ‘new research findings’ that renders
      common sense obsolete?

      “ But then what irks is the
      moralizing from peddlers of  prejudicial stories like Diana Eck
      as if what she did was for the higher purpose of upholding free
      speech” Diana Eck is the not the one prejudiced, do you even know
      anything of the ground reality here when you wax knowledgeable about
      things you have no experience of, you pompous ass?

      • Anonymous


        fundings from Islamic nations are automatically tainted”  If you had spent as much time reading as you did ranting, you’d see that i didn’t mention ‘islamic funding’ anywhere. But it does show where you are coming from, doesn’t it? 

        i was actually referring to dominance of evangelicals and soul harvesters in SAS – the kind of which is documented by Rajiv in ‘Breaking India’ but then you wouldn’t have read such books as it won’t fit your vision of the world, isn’t it? Look up ‘confirmation bias’ to understand whats ailing you. 
        Though I didn’t mention in my comment, many have alluded to a donation from the Saudi prince. Are you implying university funding in general is  without strings or just the one from the Saudi prince, if there indeed was such a donation?”Diana Eck is the not the one prejudiced” which book of hers are you basing your opinion on? Give me a title.”do you even know anything of the ground reality here”  here meaning where? I have no idea what transpires in your imaginary land. 

        • huyogisays

          Let’s not pretend and hide behind any sophistication, people were going on endlessly here about Diana Eck not having any qualms abut accepting funds from Saudi Arabia, in fact going so far as to allege that it was that which influenced her decision. And even if you weren’t referring to that (though i doubt that), why do you find evangelism or ‘soul harvesting’ as you call it, so threatening? Yes, i have not read Rajiv’s “Breaking India”, but that’s because i have no time for treatises on prejudged premises and conspiracy theories. I admit that i may have confirmed a bias of my own, but that is one that i hold as a victim of a sustained onslaught of political and social maligning as that exemplified by swamy’s article and can justifiably plead provocation for that.

          • Anonymous

            If you persist in thinking ‘you didn’t refer to islamic funding but meant it’, conversation is impossible. 

            its pointless to counter “when did you stop beating your wife” arguments.

            Its interesting and ironic that  you’ve used terms such as bigoted, prejudiced, and hypocrite to describe others views and I cite you sources for my position, you flippantly dismiss them saying you don’t have “time for treatises on prejudged premises and conspiracy theories”; neither have you explained how you arrived at your conclusions nor answered my specific questions.

            “why do you find evangelism or ‘soul harvesting’ as you call it, so threatening?”  - Not threatening but just something distasteful. Its for the same reason why anyone would not like to see exploitation of the economically backward or the gullible. Fabrication of false history (which i was taught in school) facilitates this and conversion is peddled as a solution, which it is not. 

            I cannot compress it shorter than saying ‘its a fake solution offered for an imaginary problem and shoved down the throats of the gullible and weak using threats, trickery and inducements’. 

            I’ve no problems with individuals choosing on their own but do weaker sections really have a lot of choice?  ‘Breaking India’ explores this topic in detail and no, its not sponsored by RSS. 

            I don’t know what sort of injustices you faced or the causes you attribute to those perceived injustices but in light of your arguments here, I urge you to introspect a bit more and revisit your beliefs. 

            ” I admit that i may have confirmed a bias of my own, but that is one that i hold as a victim” - Its good that you are aware you may be biased. You may even be justified in your biases, but is holding on to them and spewing venom based on that helpful?

          • huyogisays

            Hmm, “fabrication of false history”,
            wouldn’t that be something along the lines of, “Muslims invaders
            ruled India for 800 years, all the while raping Hindu women,
            pillaging, forcing conversions, razing temples and building mosques
            on top of them. They massacred over 80 million Hindus, Babar used to
            pile mountains of beheaded Hindu heads to amuse himself…”

            Perpetuating myths like the above among
            the gullible for years on end, encouraging and stoking the resulting
            feeling of hate and resentment, inciting violence on the basis of
            those, and exploiting them for petty political gains, now that’s what
            I call spewing venom as swamy has done.

            Those who turn a blind eye to this, or
            seek to justify it or distract from that fact with lameass
            pontification are truly bigots, hypocrites and all those other terms
            I have used. It’s you my friend who needs to look within himself.

          • Anonymous

            Interesting you stopped short of saying “the Evil Aryan Hindus enticed the innocent Babar into coming to India, refused him entry into temples because of which he was forced to build a mosque on top of it so that he can pray. He didn’t kill nonbelievers but he was just releasing the blood from the prison of their bodies which was for their own good.”

          • huyogisays

            Don’t you are in denial using frivolity, interesting.

          • Anonymous

            I tried talking serious but you just wouldn’t listen. Now I’m just speaking your language.

          • huyogisays

            yabaa, dabaa doo, if only we could get somewhere by discarding preconceived notions and prejudices.

          • huyogisays

            Forgot to mention the mischief of associating all Muslims with terrorism with a steady stream of subliminal stimuli, citing of medieval Sharia practices and denial of religious freedom to non-Muslims in Saudi etc. , to justify any Hindu excesses or atrocities in India…

      • huyogisays

        I am sorry i called you a pompous ass because i thought you were an outsider living outside India without exposure to life here, had no idea that you were Krishnan..but you are one dammit, so am i, for that matter! Look at us, holding forth on the actions of those infinitely superior to us in intellect..oh, okay, you may be reluctant be to admit anything of that sort, but i am a humble man, i admit i have ‘exceeded my brief’

    • Prasanth

      Thank you for the post. This is a very scientific appeal and in case Meghna wants to continue this debate these can be the points that can be considered to start with.

  • huyogisays

    I know, it’s childish but just couldn’t resist, enjoy, the real face of the man.

    • Ruchi

      not unexpected of you huyogisays. i have read couple of your responses on twitter as well. all i can say is you have been stalking Dr Swamy like shadow not too difficult to guess why.  Truth has always prevailed and will always prevail. Unless you are one of them cannot ignore the truth.

  • Hindustani

    @f1b9dfed88cbad9231959d6832e0d419:disqus I support the recommendations from @PointJabber:disqus 

    Though the debate was about ‘Free Speech’ it was in context of ‘Wiping out Islamic Extremism from India’

    People around the world are aware of the terms ‘Jihad’, ‘Fatwas’, ‘Halals’ and many have indepth knowledge on Islamic books Quran, Hadith etc…

    However we need to discuss the topic in context of India and Indian history!

    Muslims are a fraction of American population around 2 million whereas in India the Muslim population is close to 200 million. Muslim votes have became crucial in swinging the elections in India.

    Talking about ‘Free Speech’, Diana says U.S is very generous in it’s guidelines for ‘free speech’ however she goes on to define & categorizing Dr. Swamy’s views as ‘hate speech’.

    In India there are Pakistan ISI sponsored Separatist leaders who openly speak & protest against India. The Tibetians are allowed to openly express themselves & protest in India. Dr. Swamy’s views as a Political leader were for the citizens of India participating in democracy.

    American democracy has allowed it’s citizens to choose fearless leaders who had the U.S. Army cross it’s borders and fight a war on various Islamic Republics as a response of single 9/11 Terrorist Attack!

    India has been a victim of Islamic Extremism for a million years witnessing countless deaths, while we practice tolerance people like Diana Eck start treating us like ‘doormats’ and call Hindus something between ‘Nationalists’ and ‘Thugs’, has she found the right word yet?

    Harvard has blown the issue out of proportion by calling itself a Global Institute and trying to have an influence on Indian Politics and on lives and sentiments of Indians.

    If you are going to have discussion in Global context then we need to talk about the Human Rights violations in all Islamic nations & Muslim majority nations, and if this discussion is going to be viewed only in Indian context, we need to keep everyone including the Americans out of it!

    I’ll like to end my comments with the request for you to host a follow-up show, perhaps you can take questions from people in advance, 18 minutes was too short!

  • confusedethics

    Ho w can one support petitions using harvard name to indiviuals in whom the whole world and intelligence community has raised the flag of suspicion and there is open call for fight in afghan, chechanya, palestine, kashmir and calling female police officer in line of duty the B word..
    This indiviuals who Eck supported do not even oppose the barbaric practice of stone throwing punishment.

    How can one write a apology in Khaleej times using harvard names as if harvard is involved in crusade.
    How can one support the TLC show especially using harvard name.
    How can one tell in harvard name Bob the poor tax payer and patriotic citizen or the vicitm of the 9/11 to live with their emotions, as people are here to stay and not to camp.

    It is ok to take a very high stand . But to see no evil in terrorists of 9/11 who damaged other properties and claim innocent lives in 9/11 and calling people who reclaim their own building as thugs show lack of internal consistency, lack of judgement, lack of ethics, obvoious personal bias and conflict of interest.

    The real issue is how can one accept money from countries which has terrible human records, minority records, women rights records, and was the home to the 9/11 terrorists. Mayor Giuliani returned the money aftermath of 9/11 with no thanks.Let Eck get a visa to saudi, visit Mecca and Medina.If saudis refuse Eck, i will respect their rights.

    People living in glass house should not throw stones at others.The best thing for harvard was not to open this pandra box.

    Stanford did the smart thing by throwing the petition against Dr. Rice in garbage.

    Otherwise will call for division of labor, and politicians, solidiers, intelligence officers cannot enter into academics.

    Eck should have told the petitioners to take this to the Indian soil, where it happened.

    Raja got it backwards again as the harvard rules say the tenured professor have to be more careful of their outside activity , and it gives more liberty to non tenured part time, because it is aware of the limitations.

    Eck gets everything backwards. I would ask Dr. Swamy to lecture in harvard about economics and would tell him to keep his political views when he wears the role of politician in India or outside the campus. .Eck specially will need to be told not to use harvard name, professor and webistes if she wants to continue the current activities she is enrolled in.She cannot claim as professor of indian studies, because you need to be proficient in Astrology, yoga, vedas, upanishads, ayurveda, ancient indian mathematics etc.This is akin to some one visiting the hospital multiple times, staying there and calling themself as doctor.I am explaining this as solely as it pains to see people wearing this kind of hats, when there are others who have spent more than 16 years of life dedicated to this, and really proficient in this.

    If harvard returns all the money from saudi, qatar etc, If Eck and professors with similar biases and interests resign from the harvard, harvard cleans up its acts completly including throwing out people with 9/11 conspiracy theory, hatred against FBI/CIA/NYPD then it might gain the moral and ethical ground to discuss about Dr. Swamy role in far away country not using the harvard name.Glenn beck wrote in 2008 harvard caves in for muslims.

    Here is the Harvard policy:

    In general, when pursuing outside activities, members should limit their
    identification with Harvard to listing their formal titles, and should otherwise
    aim to make clear that they are acting as individuals and not on behalf of the
    University. They should also take reasonable precautions to prevent the
    organizations and individuals with whom they work from using the Harvard name,
    or making representations about Harvard, in ways that suggest that the
    University sponsors or endorses their activities. Attaching a Harvard name or
    symbol to an activity implies a form of institutional accountability that is
    ordinarily absent from outside activities undertaken by individual members of
    the University.

    The Statement provides a contemporary
    interpretation of longstanding principles that offer guidance on the conduct of
    outside professional activities, emphasizing those undertaken with educational
    or research enterprises other than Harvard. It is framed in broad terms, both to
    allow discretion in the application of its provisions to individual cases, and
    to permit the individual Faculties—consistent with the general guidelines
    presented here—to maintain and develop more specific policies applicable to
    their own settings. Although some of the provisions in the Statement refer only
    to full-time appointees, part-time appointees are expected to stay alert to the
    underlying concerns it addresses, and seek guidance from their Dean when their
    outside activities may reasonably appear relevant to any of those
    concerns.

    Requirement of harvard boards:

    Establishing a culture of open discussion, respect for all views, and free
    exchange of information, helps ensure that all views are heard and no one is
    intimidated.

    Is there an ethics code or code of conduct for the directors and the employees?

  • Hindustani

    @f1b9dfed88cbad9231959d6832e0d419:disqus  If you host another show, probably you should invite Harvard Students Umang Kumar, Sanjay J. Pinto, Harvard Professors Sugata Bose & Ajantha Subramanian, they were the people from Indian Orgin who triggered this ‘Free Speech’ debate by starting a petition.

    Diana Eck seems to have wanted everyone to protest in a Gandhi style satyagraha, however due to her interfaith ideology she seems to caught up!

    • 2gharvardscamsters

      The decision to suspend Dr. Swamy coursesI suspect was taken in a kitchen party in Delhi or Calcutta. Like professor Lewis said most of the faculty were not aware till decmber 5.

      Harvard president had closed the chapter, the faculty used nasty back door method. The faculty power is to look at the necessity of the subject, no where it is mentioned that Harvard faculty should use this meeting  to judge a faculty for his personal opinions.

      I will speak in the language of harvard so called liberals.
      The muslim angle used to attack Dr. Swamy is a farce. The op-ed is like the weapon of mass destruction in Iraq. The petrodollar was the 2 G scam.

      But Eck took the leadership , should have told this happened in Indian soil. She should have been better than senators who she had criticised for iraq war.Atleast Saddam had wmd at one time attacked kurds and invaded kuwait somewhere in his history.

      Harvard faculty allows more liberty for part times to do outside  work, it is written in black and white , which even I could understand.She should have taken the matter to Dean or asked for a provost to be appointed. But considerig  her prior record, the best option for her was to ethically abstain from voting or looking into the issue.

      I do not know if Eck had any clues about the opponents of Dr. Swamy who had used Osama, saddam, taliban courts, chopping of hands by taliban, indian mujahideen, political interference in police etc.I cannot tell if she was aware of the 2g scam.
      But she did giggle for December 6th date.

      Now I sincerely hope the president and the board will hand this matter to external agency for further investigation  , as harvard knowingly or unknowingly fell to the trap of 2 g scamsters avenging Dr. Swamy.The other  factor was swamy opposition to LTTE. LTTE was involved in the assassination of Rajiv gandhi.

      From Mr. bhushan to Mr.Hazare  to Mr.Kejrwal to Ms.Bedi and Baba ramdev and his assistant were mudslinged by this scamstes that miniscules the vallerie case. Dr.Swamy ‘s residence in Delhi was attacked.This people were fighting against corruption in india , 2 gscam, stronger laws, independence to investigation agency and Black money stashed abroad.The pattern is very obvious. The media is very careful not to get on the wrong side, instead certain of them have become partners as evidenced by the tapes of journalists appointing the telecom minister, rather than the prime minister.

      Anyone wanting to blog,discuss, or look into must first study the 2g scam, which would make even the world’s most corrupt leaders roll over in their graves.

      The worst thing they could do for multipluraism was use the muslim angle for further contributing to distrust.
      The discussion in social networks had more serious consequences than the op-ed itself. Otherwise it would have restricted to the DNA and indian soil.

    • guest

      Agreed! I want to hear from Umang Kumar and Sanjay Pinto and the others you have mentioned. They seem to have  led the Harvard faculty by the nose to do their bidding.

      • 2gharvardscamsters

        They need to be interrogated , not interviewed to see if they used the muslim angle to avenge Dr.Swamy for his fight against corruption in the 2 g scam. If that is true than it becomes inexcusable and unpardonable.

  • http://twitter.com/Argus_I HarUp

    The right that huyogisays is so freely exercising here – by voicing his/her views and indignation on the subject with zealous and vehement vituperation, and by generously showering epithets, and consequently offending others and attracting sharp rebuffs and generating a debate – it is that very right his/her likes have denied Prof. Swamy!

  • Mumbai-ATS

    Drew Gilpin Faust, President of Harvard University has scheduled her inaugural visit to India, January 19, 2012 at The Taj Mahal Palace, Apollo Bunder, Mumbai.

    Let’s protest Dr. Swamy’s right to ‘free speech’ and request to reinstate his courses back in Harvard which were removed based on his op-ed in DNA ‘how to wipe out Islamic Terrorism’ written following the 13th July’2011 Mumbai Blasts. What better place in the world than Taj Hotel for this protest, Burning Taj had become the symbol of Terrorism in India, following 26th Nov’2008 Mumbai Attacks. Though there are efforts to improve the Intelligence & overall security mechanisms in the country we have not been able to prevent the Terror Attacks by the ‘Islamic Extremists’. No one has been able to come out with a solution that can stop Terrorism in India, Dr. Swamy prescribed a possible way in which we can end Islamic Terrorism in India forever!

    Where does the Terrorists gets funding and support for their training? Where does 150+ Terrorist camps in Pakistan get their funding? Where does the hundreds of madrasses teaching religious discrimication providing free traning & food get it’s funding?

    Connecting the Dots: Education and Religious Discrimination in Pakistan, was funded by the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) and conducted by the International Center for Religion and Diplomacy, The USCIRF report can be accessed online.

    Drew Giplin can first visit the memorial at Taj, hear from the victims at Taj and then view Dr. Swamy’s article in context of ‘Islamic Terrorism’ and understand his ‘free speech’ was really addressing ‘hurt’ and not ‘hate’.

    Dr. Swamy is making an effort to protect the Hindu values and unite people in India against Islamic Extremism & Terrorism. Those are the very values which Taj Staff represented, putting their lives in danger & embracing death while ensuring the safety of guests. “Taj Bombay: Customer-Centric Leadership”, Multimedia Case by Harvard Business School was an attempt to learn those very values displayed by the Taj Staff. Dr. Swamy’s vision is for every Indian to inherit those ‘Hindu Values’ by a simple soultion of proudly accepting their Hindu Ancestory!

    Hindu refers to an identity associated with the philosophical, religious and cultural systems that are indigenous to the Indian subcontinent. As used in the Constitution of India, the word “Hindu” is also attributed to all persons professing any Indian religion (i.e. Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism or Sikhism).

    • Mumbai-ATS

      Join the Facbook event id: 245106238891784

  • http://twitter.com/Argus_I HarUp

    Harvard is an equal opportunity employer. Harvard does not discriminate on the basis of sex, race, religion yada yada yada.

    Caveat in fine print: We do openly discriminate on the basis of political ideology. The usurper clique of libtard faculty at Harvard shall be the final arbiter.

  • huyogisays

    So when is he being a lying two faced opportunist, then; http://www.hindu.com/fline/fl1702/17020950.htm , or now with his recent inflammatory filth.

    • Cannotunderstandhim

      That is why you do not make Dr. Swamy president of Harvard , when he fasts for muslim or write the article like written above, nor do you kick him out when he writes a article against terror.

      He is a real secular, hard t0 understand. Easy to misunderstand as opportunist.Not a peculiar.Attacks left, right , center, muslims, hindus etc. So read him as a whole.There is no pattern of hindu fanatic or muslim appeaser.

      only thing you realise he has fought corruption, killing of the innocents.He is on the worng side of majority, but is on the side of the weak , voiceless and true victims.

      You do not have to agree with him . In fact if you agree with him on everything, then he says either you  or he are reduntant in this creation.

      • Huyogisays

        What is most telling is the timing of his many volte-faces and taking up of ‘crusades’, surely you can see that they happened to be when it was most opportune for him in his political career.

        • Cannotunderstandhim

          It is the other way round. He could have easily gotten what he wanted from the corrupt scamsters of India. UPA would have given him a cabinet if he went to them with all the proofs to her majesty.To buy his silence in the 2 G  scam, UPA would have given anything he wanted.

          The congress scamsters or karunanidhi or the media etc. are not stupid.I do not believe he got rewarded or voted for sitting in fast for those muslims, nor did he get anything from the hindus for writing a op-ed

          Most of his supporters here are people who know he was victimisied for his one man fight against the swindling of 40 billion dollars by the scamsters.If it was not for him, the corrupt would have continued with their scams.He was the one man who changed the course of the 2 G case. Though the contribtutions of others who exposed this is also equally appaludable.

          He does not care about the power nor money , as he does not play any favours to his friends nor his family. That is the night mare to both his friend and foe politicians.

          His idea in 1991 to let US planes land in india for refuelling, drafting of the liberalisation economic report  when country was going bankrupt and convincing the rigid socialist Shri.Chandrashekar to change the path of the country, working with PVN for liberalisation.

          People tell Man Mohan is the architect, but see what he has acheived?Inflation, Rupee at 52, raising naxalism, terrorism.
          Under him liberalisation meant public property given at a song to the politicians like it happened in 2g, cwg , land scams etc.So people are getting scared of this liberalisation. The real architects are PVN, chandra shekar and Swamy.

          The only one who benefits from Swamy  being in power is the people of India, no body else, not even his family or twitter supporters.

          • Huyogisays

            You make it sound as if swamy was the second coming and the Congress party was the devil incarnate. I am not buying the hype, his “battle” against corruption  is only a petty little political vendetta against a particular party and a particular family,  he’s just too biased politically to believe he has only the good of the nation at heart, don’t see him exposing corruption in any other political party . And it’s not fooling anybody, he’s a just a petty little mischief-maker in the political arena with a bigoted agenda that is convenient in the present political scenario and the mood of the nation, especially with regard to the anti-Muslim sentiment that is plainly evident among a large section of the neteratti.

          • Huyogisays

            the neteratti who will vehemently deny any such thing with  uniformly righteous indignation all across the board. It’s almost as if there was a tacit pact or a conspiracy to ignore the bigotry as if it didn’t exist and hype up only his anti-corruption thingee and make it out to be some kind of holy war and that he was  th saint or hero leading it. Don’t you see what he’s doing with his managed Twitter account, website, all those seminars, the half-truths, he’s cashing in on the opportunity so brazenly!

          • Huyogisays

            With total disregard for the possible horrific consequences and costs in terms of human lives, being the ruthless power player he is. It was fortunate that he did not have the same mass appeal that the BJP did when they performed their dastardly act, or any credibility to speak of, during the sensitive period in which he irresponsibly penned his filth and nobody took him seriously; one can only imagine the disaster otherwise.

          • Cannotunderstandhim

            So you mean to say A-adarsh, bofors, CWG, 2g scams are the things which nation should pay respects to the first family.
            Why did they attack Hazare?Was he also out to gain political mileage?Why did they not bring the black money, instead killed and injured ramdev protester?Why did they not listen to the officials and auction the 2g?Why did they attack Vinod rai, the CAG?The guy umang kumar shed crocodile tears in crimson about bhopal gas scandal, but evidence strongly points this scamsters let the  union carbide CEO escape from india.
            Why did they defreeze quattarchi account in britain. why did they let him escape in argentina court.
            If nobody took so called Dr.swamy seriously why did harvard take it seriously.You will not answer.Because everyone knew it was one of the response to terrorism, and fighting the alqaeda-taliban kind of ideology.Harvard took it as an opportunity to satisfy the 2g scamsters and avenger her majesty opponent.

          • Huyogisays

            I so hate those pimps of Dow Chemicals and Union Carbide, it’s our own fault, we have aided and abetted in excusing the devil-may-care attitude to lives in third world /non Christian/non-white /Islamic countries..no, i beg you, @meghna chakrabarti, meet this truth head on, with whatever percentage of truth that exists in it as per your reason..despite my incoherence

          • Huyogisays

            As i was saying..so you shouldn’t be surprised if nobody turned a hair over a mere 30,000 dead because of corporate greed and corruption in the case of the Bhopal murders. They were lesser creatures, they were, how do they put it, “collateral damage”?

          • Huyogisays

            Okay, because i’ve exasperated you more than once, :D: you will probably delete all my posts, ban me for life, initiate legal proceedings against me but i think this is most appropriate and timely; :mmphh:

  • huyogisays

    But in all seriousness, what possible grounds can you have to find this objectionable!

  • huyogisays

    Meghna, why do your people keep deleting my image, aren’t you the defenders of free speech? Surely, my image is not more offensive than that bigot swamy’s article! Or is my picture worth more than the thousand words here and you can’t have that…

  • Idoiticeyeopener

    Arthur
    J Pais

    In 1941, at the height of the Second World
    War, Subhas Chandra Bose went to Germany to seek Adolf Hitler’s
    help in organising an Indian army to fight their common enemy,
    England. In the third part of his four-part interview to Arthur
    Pais, biographer Sugata Bose talks about Netaji’s time in
    Europe.Several academics including the Nobel laureate
    Amartya Sen have praised the book.
    ‘Larger than life, more profoundly intriguing than the myths that surround
    him, Subhas Chandra Bose was India’s greatest ‘lost’ leader,’ writes Homi K
    Bhabha, Harvard professor, in a blurb. ‘In a remarkable narrative that pairs
    political passion with historical precision, Sugata Bose has beautifully
    explored the character and charisma of the man, while providing an elegant and
    incisive account of one of the most important phases of the struggle for Indian
    independence.’Huyogi for your information the readers were deleting so that you did not have to go through the embrassment.Sugata Bose hopefully will clarify for the sake of Subhas Chandra Bose soul if he did this  act of removing Dr.Swamy to pay/AVENGE  for his role as “Her Majesty’s opponent”.Readers have refrained from commenting about Sugata bose, and it is better if the current story of ths family remains untold for the sake of subhas chandra bose.’Larger than life, more profoundly intriguing than the myths that surround
    him, Subhas Chandra Bose was India’s greatest ‘lost’ leader,’ writes Homi K
    Bhabha, Harvard professor, in a blurb. ‘In a remarkable narrative that pairs
    political passion with historical precision, Sugata Bose has beautifully
    explored the character and charisma of the man, while providing an elegant and
    incisive account of one of the most important phases of the struggle for Indian
    independence.’Huyogi for your information the readers were deleting so that you did not have to go through the embrassment.Sugata Bose hopefully will clarify for the sake of Subhas Chandra Bose soul if he did this  act of removing Dr.Swamy to pay/AVENGE  for his role as “Her Majesty’s opponent”.Readers have refrained from commenting about Sugata bose, and it is better if the current story of ths family remains untold for the sake of subhas chandra bose.

  • SACK-ECK

    Ok here’s an interesting fact about Diana Eck. Check out her twitter page https://twitter.com/#!/dianaeck. This “so called” expert on India is all exultant in passing on the “EID wishes” (an Islamic festival) from the muslim community but totally forgets and ignores wishing for DIWALI – which the biggest Indian festival of Hindus. How convenient, right?!

    And her tweets start by mentioning love for muslim painter who painted obnoxious and inflammatory drawings of Hindu goddesses.

    Does anyone not see her inner motives here? Hah!!! DOUBLE STANDARDS EXPOSED.

    SACK ECK HARVARD!!!

    • Whitewasherofterror

      Eck should have been removed  for using harvard name in all her activities starting from white washing 9/11 terror, to supporting the Ramadana and criticisng the immigration , bush, obama officials, telling 9/11 victims they have to leave with the 9/11 mosque , for writing an apology in Khaleej times on behalf of crusades etc.
      It is unacceptable to use harvard name and violation of the not for profit status of harvard.

  • Huyogisays

    Further to my rant, 3000 “Amrerican” (American in all the sense of the propaganda  associated with the word, through the combined might of Hollywood and American Television), whatever, 3000 of those against more than a million of others, that’s how they weigh them..and you know that’s a fact because, “oops”, wrong country!

  • Huyogisays

    9/11, 9/11, 9/11..we have been programmed subliminally to be aghast and boo aloud at the very mention of that date, our minds automatically associate it with the most horrific act in the history of mankind, the holocaust, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, agent Orange, the Bhopal gas tragedy,  the genocides in Africa, Serbia, everything pales in comparison, tell me honestly, how many of you even remember the dates of those other events..see what i mean by the might of American political propaganda? Funny thing about it, we Indians don’t even write dates that way, according to our convention it would be 11/9.

  • Icanunderstandhu

    huyogisays                   
    The concept of ‘righting historical wrongs’, is ridiculous and vindictive, especially so, when those wrongs are fictitious and part of a sustained campaign of lies and propaganda

    So remember your sentence.
    You dont like Swamy that is ok.Then join Hazare and work on lokpal bill.
    Get CBI its independence from the clutches of scamsters.
    Make sure the 4 pillars of democracy are seperate, independent and accountable to each other.
    Work on making country real secular not peculiar.

  • Icannotunderstandhim

    Huyogi here is the evidence about your friends congress party who you are fighting for.
    This is how the union carbide escaped.Do not blame US, they made BP clean up their act.
    But you start hurting people who try something to bring accountability in the system.
     
    Arjun singh met Rajiv Gandhi after a Cabinet Committee Political Affairs meeting and that Anderson was supposed to be out under house arrest and all senior officials were in the dark about his release.Attesting the same thing, a CNN-IBN report said that a declassified CIA documents show that Anderson was released after being arrested on December 7 on the orders of the Rajiv Gandhi government.The documents were dated dated 8 December 1984 a day after Anderson left India and five days after the deadly gas leaked from Union Carbide’s Bhopal plant.On December 7, Warren Anderson was arrested but was later released the same day and was flown out of Bhopal in a state government plane to New Delhi.The documents say politicians were trying to play a blame game and wring compensation from UCIL (Union Carbide India Ltd).The Congress, pushed to defend its record in dealing with the Bhopal gas tragedy case, was once again in firefighting mode. On Friday evening, its core committee — consisting of Prime Minister Manmohan SinghManmohan Singh, Congress president Sonia GandhiSonia Gandhi, her political secretary Ahmed Patel, Union Ministers Pranab MukherjeePranab Mukherjee,  P. ChidambaramP. Chidambaram and A.K. Antony — decided that “the government, not the party, would have to clarify” on the various aspects of the case, as “the facts are only with the government,” highly placed sources told The Hindu.PC Alexander, the principal secretary to Rajiv Gandhi, has hinted that the prime minister might have taken the decision to release the former chairman of Union Carbide Corp Warren Anderson in consultation with Arjun Singh, the then Madhya Pradesh Chief Minister, media reports say.According Headlines Today, Alexander said Anderson could not have escaped without the help of the state government and that he was let go keeping in mind the larger interest and under pressure.

    • Huyogisays

      Of course i know the whole sordid story, i know that Arjun Singh personally smuggled away Anderson in a govt. plane, i know that Abhishek Manu Sanghvi was a consultant for Dow Chemicals even after the leak, i am not in any way denying the corruption in Congress or supporting them, didn’t i call the players involved, “pimps” of Dow Chemicals. What i am saying is that all the other parties are equally corrupt and that we have only the option of choosing the lesser of the many evils, and believe you me, after seeing the true faces of the mass murderers and bigots among the alternatives to the Congress, their lunatic schemes, the chaos within their ranks, the total lack of any positive thing that they bring to the table other than an unreasonable and extreme opposition to all things Congress, Congress seems like the far, far, lesser evil. I repeat, do be taken in or promote the anti-corruption crusade hype, he’s just a megalomaniac without a proper platform or resources, so he uses available opportunity for mischief, convenient alliances and blackmail to clamber to power, unless of course, you secretly empathize with his bigotry.

      • Huyogisays

        Osho has accurately portrayed characters like fanatics like swamy, i’m paraphrasing here, but this was the gist of it, ‘such people are drunk on the false conviction of their own moral infallibility, life for them is a constant struggle to prove that to the rest of the world and put it in it’s place, they are incapable of realizing any human truths or empathizing with the human condition’

        • Skmalluapthi

          So who does this paraphrase of Huyogi fits :

          False conviction of their moral infallability- We are the protectors of free speech, ethics,
          Constant struggle- to prove that terrorists are right
          Human truth- fight against terrorism
          Empathising with human condition- Emotions of the victims of 9/11 or other terror victims

      • Skmallupathi

        All parties are not equally corrupt. Congress corruption is unbeatable. The difference in congress it is corrupt from bottom to top. So everyone is like a mafia, they get their share and continue to support and indulge in corruption.
        2g scam , bofors, etc are unbeatable. You cannot equal pick pocket theives to bank dacoits.
         Arun Shourie, Jaswanth singh were tried in 2g scandal, as congress thought they would escape the corruption scandal. But Arun shourie himself went to the CBI.So how can you call everyone as corrupt.He clearly told CBI that vajpayee would have hung him if he had pulled Raja like a stunt.
        NDA did file a affidavit for extradition of anderson in 2003-2004, when they were in power.
        When it comes to corruption congress is unbeatble organised mafia. But they are very organised biggest corrupts, there is no dissent nor confusion.Their aim is clear.
        Now you speak so much why you did not take up the 2 g scam case. Dr.Swamy would not have gotten the star status.
        Your comments point that you are like sibal who says 176000 crores is equal to zero.

  • Huyogisays

    @meghna chakrabarti, You should know what a big fat hypocritical scumbag he is when he claims that the “op-ed” was written in the backdrop of the 2011 terror attacks..here’s the original draft written much earlier when it passed off unnoticed; http://consumer.admanya.com/blog_how_to_wipe_out_islamic_terror_from_india-1640.html

  • confusedethics

     
    “BOWING TO TERRORISTSIn 1989, to obtain the release of Mufti Mohammed Sayeed’s daughter, Rubaiyya who had been kidnapped by terrorists, five terrorists in Indian jails were set free by the V P Singh’s government. This made these criminals in the eyes of Kashmiri separatists and fence sitters heroes, as those who had brought India’s Hindu establishment on its knees. To save Rubaiyya it was not necessary to surrender to terrorist demands. The worst capitulation to terrorists in our modern history was in the Indian Airlines IC-814 hijack in December 1999 staged in Kandahar. The government released three terrorists even without getting court permission (required since they were in judicial custody). Moreover, they were escorted by a senior minister on the PM’s special Boeing all the way to Kandahar as royal guests instead of being shoved across the Indo-Pakistan border.Worse still, all the three after being freed, went back to Pakistan and created three separate terrorist organisations to kill Hindus. Mohammed Azhar, whom the National Security Advisor Brijesh Mishra had then described as “a mere harmless cleric”, upon his release led the LeT to savage and repeated terrorist attacks on Hindus all over India from Bangalore to Srinagar. Since mid-2000, Azhar is responsible for the killing of over 2,000 Hindus and the attack on Parliament on December 13, 2001. Omar Sheikh who helped al-Qaeda is in jail in US custody for killing US journalist Daniel Pearl, while the third, Zargar is engaged today in random killings of Hindus in Doda and Jammu after founding Al-Mujahideen Jingaan.This Kandahar episode proves that we should never negotiate with terrorists, never yield. If you do, then sooner or later you will end up losing more lives than you will ever save by a deal with terrorists.”
     
    So huyogi hope you read before you post. The main theme is terrorism.
    I think orignially he wrote in 2005-2006, much earlier than 2010. Even then theme was terrorism.
    The harvard and the whole world- Huyogi?? knew about the article.
     
    But then in 2006 Swamy was not fighting the 2 g scamsters. In 2011 when the cases were coming close to their necks the scamsters of 176000 crores pulled this articles and gave it a celebrity status to avenge Dr.Swamy for accusing the queen, and thereby avenging Her majesty’s opponenet.
     
    So the biggest question is “Did harvard knowingly o r unknowingly kick Dr.Swamy for fight agaisnt corruption using the muslim angle as pretext”. Only detailed enquiry in Harvard and India will answer this questions.

    • Huyogisays

      As i recall, it was the BJP which was responsible for the shameful capitulation, so what’s your point? Swamy had never edged his way into the limelight then in this matter, he was biding his time and i don’t recall him ever protesting that surrender to terrorists. If you think Harvard has any time for the dirty politics played out here, then you’re kidding yourself.

      • Confusedethics

        You said to Ms.Meghna that article was not written earlier in response to terrorism.
        But when I read the article it was clearly written in the backdrop of terror incidents. He gives good examples of slowly evolving terror.
        So on what basis did you say that article written earlier was not in the back drop of terror?
        All the articles are written in the back drop of terror.
        The last question is for the petitioners of harvard and Harvard to answer. Harvard ethics, freedom of speech, conflict of interest  has been dented severely.

  • Huyogisays

    @confusedethics You are confused alright, and your ethics are indeed in a tangle..look at the date of the original draft. Swamy was at a loss to defend his hate-filled violence inciting filth, chose to brazenly lie about it being written post the 2011 terror attacks when it was in fact written much earlier, and Harvard was thus fully justified in dissociating itself from any thing and anybody who would stoop so low. Even ‘freedom of speech’ by any stretch of the imagination does not excuse that.

    • Confusedethics

      It is written same if terror happens in 2001, 2006, 2011,.Innocents people lost the samething “their life” in all this.
      Did  the condolence message of the governements change between 2001, 2006, 2011.
      It is the same lip service.
      Did the government of India response to terror  change? Nothing they slept on it for fear of loss of votes.
      I would agree with you if he had written earlier for something else say a election speech but changed it in 2011 for terror.
      The only thing different in 2011 was harvard was approached by the powerful scamsters of 2g. Money can buy many things. Man with the gold writes the golden rules.

      Kindly let Harvard provide the contact of the ( is it Eck?) who will need to be approached so as to ensure all speeches given anywere in the world by harvard faculty/students including future,   even if it might be in the rest room are compliant with their policy.We know we can curse the army, man and woman married, CIA, FBI,chrisitans, jews, hindus, nothng will happen and might be invited for more future speeches in harvard  and even a petition will be written in support.

      The whole world including FIRE who are the champions of FREE SPEECH have clearly told Harvard that it violated the freedom of speech.

      Confused by  those people who still support the scamsters who made tragedy of Bhopal into worst human catastrophic disaster, by letting union carbide go scout free.Confused by those who write petition for people who contributed to terror and opposed people who opposed terror. Confused because thought marraiage was affair between man and women.

      • Huyogisays

        “The only thing different in 2011 was harvard was approached by the
        powerful scamsters of 2g. Money can buy many things. Man with the gold
        writes the golden rules.” – Cuckoo, Cuckoo..pardon me, that was the clock.

        Give it up will you, it’s impossible to defend the indefensible, nobody takes either swamy or his little following of hate-filled fruitcakes seriously. Free speech policy notwithstanding, swamy got the boot because Harvard didn’t want any association with the slime, and that’s that. All this debating and protests by FIRE, etal is just an intellectual exercise among purists, nothing is going to come of it. Alleging that Harvard was bribed is just so lame and pathetic.

  • Huyogisays

    @confusedethics And that mass murderer Modi, the other monster whom you adore so much..we all know why, so spare yourself the strain of your absurd logical contortions and lameass defense of both these filthy creatures..he’s not even allowed to set foot in the US, eat that and live with it, stop whining.

  • confusedethics

    Huyogi do not just do your verbal diarrhea here. You were trapped in the Bhopal gas tragedy, when i showed how the scamsters prevented justice to 2g victims.
    Now you are trapped again when it was proven that the article was written in the background of terrorism.
    By the way what is your opinion on this:Will your scamsters bow to the pressure of the vote Banks.Will the request of the people who inspired Taliban be respected.
    By Associated Press,
    LUCKNOW, India — Prominent Muslim clerics in India are asking the government to bar author Salman Rushdie from visiting the country to attend a literary festival because of his 1988 book “The Satanic Verses,” which they consider blasphemy.The Darul Uloom seminary’s head Maulana Abdul Qasim Nomani said Tuesday that the government should respect the feelings of Muslims and not allow Rushdie to attend the Jaipur Literary Festival that begins Jan. 21. 

    Rushdie spent years in hiding after Iranian leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini urged that he be killed for blasphemy because of “The Satanic Verses.” The book also was banned in India.The 150-year-old seminary preaches an austere form of Islam that has inspired millions of Muslims, including the Taliban.Courtesy: Washington post

    • Huyogisays

      What can i say, fanatics are the same everywhere, i don’t defend those either..but you should stop using this cheap tit-for-tat logic to defend your arguments..when i mention bigotry you cite examples of the same in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (we are talking about objectionable expressions of bigotry and incitement to violence as relevant to India, who the eff cares what goes on there, if anyone does let them object to those on their respective platforms), when i object to the vandalism of the Babri Masjid by Hindu thugs, you immediately start talking about Muslim invaders and the folklore and myths of the injustices they might have perpetrated, when i mention mass murderers like Modi, you say nothing has been proven against him and cite the example of Congress party killing so and so number of Muslims at such and such a time, when i mention intolerance you immediately throw Salman Rushdie or MF Hussain in my face..we are talking civilized society here, get that into thick hate-filled head, you bigoted piece of filth! Don’t go out of your way to defend bigotry, cretin, i hold bigots of all kinds, irrespective of caste, creed or color, in utter contempt.

      PS: My apologies meghna, i had had enough of these low-life hypocrites and their ridiculous arguments, just lost it there, i am extremely sorry, wouldn’t blame you if you deleted my posts.

      • Huyogisays

        @pointjabber, hi, would you like to add to the defense of the “Hindu bigot” hypocrisy, as unwittingly betrayed by confusedethics, with something more from your adventures in semantics?

        • Tkmallupathi

          Huyogi you cannot use american website to bash america. This is akin to osams using american planes to destroy world trade center.
          You cannot differentiate Wars and terrorism. It was america which intervened in Serbia. Your friends pocketed the compensation in union carbide case.You join Dr. Swamy or Hazare if you want true justice to Bhopal victims.

          Apologise for Huyogisays                     
          9/11, 9/11, 9/11..we have been programmed subliminally to be aghast and boo aloud at the very mention of that date, our minds automatically associate it with the most horrific act in the history of mankind, the holocaust, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, agent Orange, the Bhopal gas tragedy, the genocides in Africa, Serbia, everything pales in comparison, tell me honestly, how many of you even remember the dates of those other events..see what i mean by the might of American political propaganda?

          • Huyogisays

            Hey, ingratiating yourself with the moderators is not going to work here slimeball, the Americans have one admirable quality despite all their ruthless politics..they can look themselves in the mirror the next day and say, “man, what the f**k were we thinking? Was that really us?”

          • Huyogisays

            It’s a pity they have had to do it so often in their relatively short history of existence.

      • Confusedethics

        No one would have objected to Harvard if the incident happened in Dr. Swamy’s class at harvard and he had discriminated against a muslim student.

        But to drag and op-ed article which was written in india against terrorism does not make any sense.It is violation of the indian laws and constitution.

        Swamy political opponents use taliban, osama to get votes and support talibani courts. So to punish swamy for this is akin to disarming a solidier fighting in the battle field

        Then when you get into international arena and ethics , naturally all the factors including women right, human rights, minority , terrorist activities everything will have to be considered.

        Obvoiusly if Harvard takes action then obviously it cannot take the blood stained from dollars. In fact an article was written in Crimson by its own students protesting and asking harvard to return the money.

        Now Huyogi let us go to the neutral party. Do the sikhs lie their history.
        What happened to the 9th sikh guru. Read more about Guru Gobind singh. By the way the history was also recorded by the persian and arab scholars.
        There is no cure for lunatics who like to change history including people who think world trade center was nought down by explosives. Even holocaust was attempted to be denied. This massacre by this arab invaders was the most brutal mass murder in the history of mankind, but no apology for this was written in the khaleej times.

        There are various solutions proposed in terrorism debate , as the threat of taliban in India is real.

        Solution to so called talibanism is to remind the pakis and afghanis they are ancestors are also hindus. In fact arabs, persians , british termed them as Hindoo muslims to differentiate from outside muslims. This has been genetically proven and also written by your friend Amartya sen in his book ” The argumentative Indian”

        The world will be more peaceful if Egyptians recognise their ancestory, iranian their ancestory of zorastranism, nigerians their history etc. This will prevent their own countrymen to fall in sacrifice to the great pyre of jihadi.

        People come to discussion without any historical, scientific, archaelogical basis. Diana Eck did not and does not like to read about the allahabad high court judgement. Nor does Huyogi.

        The world trade center was forcefully destroyed by the fanatics. Now if the fanatics had forcefully built a mosque at the same site forcefully, can we then anyone argue about the rights of future generation to correct the wrong.

  • Tkmallupathi

    Hereby provide the numbers of hindus killed from 600 AD. Looking at the numbers it is greater than the combined massacre of all the wars in the world, genocides, holocaust put togather ever since the mankind learned to fight.

    This is the fairy tale according to Huyogi.Let the history be the judge.

    AUTHENTIC sources to make our point clear. Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan has compiled Indian History in 11 volumes and the project was financed by the Nehru Government (who no one can ever accuse of being ‘communal’). The chief editor is world-famous historian the late R C Majumdar, who was India’s representative to UNESCO and is one of the most respected historians. The Volumes on Indian History are contributed by many eminent historians, including those from the then East Pakistan (Bangladesh) and West Pakistan. To see the past- we simply quote Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan’s “History and Cultutre of Indian People”. It is hoped that these authentic quotes make everyone (Indian Muslims included) realize the truth of Islam’s spread and atrocities on Hindus.
    The chronology that follows is incomplete but indicative-

    636 AD – Arabs attacked Thane, near Mumbai [i]

    c. 643 – Arabs invaded Debol at the mouth of the Sindhu[ii]

    c. 660 – Arabs invaded Sindh[iii]

    c. 661- -Arabs sent six expeditions against Sindh[iv]
    680
    661-680 -Arabs sent expeditions against Kabul and Zabul[v]

    685 – The Arabs killed the king of Zabul[vi]

    699 – The Arabs ravaged Zabul[vii]

    712 – Muhammad-bin-Qasim slaughtered many Hindus, killed King
    Dahir and captured Sindh and gave settlement to 4000 Muslims[viii]

    724-738- The Arabs sent several expeditions against Gujarat, Jaisalmer,
    Jodhpur, Broach, Malava, Vallamandal, Ujjain[ix]

    c. 739 – The Arabs invaded Kathiawar[x]

    776 – The Arabs sent expedition against Barda, near Porbandar[xi]

    c. 948 – Alptigin of Ghazni plundered Punjab several times[xii]
    to 963

    977-997- Subuktigin of Ghazni plundered Punjab several times & carried
    immense wealth and killed many Hindus and converted many
    Hindus of Peshawar. [xiii]Jaipal was the King at that time.

    998- – Mahmud of Ghazni carried out several invasions, looted immense
    1030 treasure, killed many Hindus and converted many Hindus [xiv]

    1000 – Mahmud of Ghazni seized some parts near Peshawar[xv]

    1001 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked the kingdom of Jaipal, slaughtered
    many Hindus, captured Jaipal and collected 250000 dinars and 25
    elephants as ransom[xvi]

    1004 – Mahmud of Ghazni invaded Bagi Ray’s kingdom Bhatiya,
    plundered Bhatiya and converted many Hindus[xvii]

    1005-6 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Anandapal; in a battle near Peshawar,
    Anandapal was defeated[xviii]

    1007 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Sukhapal and plundered 400000
    dirhams[xix]

    1008 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Anandapal. 20000 Hindus were
    killed. Bhimnagar (=Nagarkot=Kot Kangra) was laid waste and
    [xx] looted its treasury which consisted of 70,000,000 royal dirhams,
    700400 mands of gold and jewellery & precious stones; clothes and
    garments[xxi]

    1009 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Narayanpur in Rajputana, broke many
    idols, killed many Hindus and took booty[xxii]

    1010 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Multan and killed a large number of
    Hindus[xxiii]

    1010 – Anandapal had to agree to send Mahmud of Ghazni annually 50
    big elephants laden with valuables and 2000 men to serve the
    court of Ghazni[xxiv]

    1011 – Mahmud of Ghazni invaded Thaneswar, broke a large number of
    idols and plundered[xxv]

    1013 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Nandana, killed many Hindus,
    captured booty and a host of elephants[xxvi]

    1014 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Kashmir- took many Hindus as
    prisoners and converted many Hindus to Islam[xxvii]

    1015 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Lokhot, a hill-fort in Kashmir[xxviii]

    1018 – Mahmud of Ghazni crossed the five rivers of Punjab and crossed
    Yamuna on 2 December 1018. The king of Baran (Bulandshahar)
    surrendered and paid 1,00,000 dirhams and 30 elephants.[xxix]

    Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Mahaban in Mathura and killed
    nearly 5000 Hindus. The king Kulachand killed his wife first and
    then himself.[xxx]

    Mahmud of Ghazni plundered Mathura and captured idols of pure
    Gold weighing 98,300 miskals. The idols of silver numbered 200.
    He ordered to burn all temples and the houses. Mathura was
    pillaged for 20 days.[xxxi]

    Mahmud of Ghazni plundered Kanauj. King Rajyapal fled. The
    Hindus were slaughtered. Kanauj had 10,000 temples. The idols
    were destroyed.[xxxii]

    Mahmud of Ghazni attacked and devastated Mung, near Kanpur.
    Many Hindus were killed and all valuables taken.[xxxiii]

    Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Asni, near Fatehpur. Its ruler,
    Chandrapal, fled. The Hindus were slaughtered.[xxxiv]

    1019 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked & plundered Sharva, near Saharanpur.
    Its ruler, Chand Rai, fled. The booty of gold, silver and pearls
    worth 30,00,000 dirhams and many elephants were captured. A
    large number of Hindus were taken as slaves and sold at Iraq’s
    Khurasan. In January 1019 Mahmud of Ghazni returned to Ghazni
    with 20,000,000 dirhams, 53,000 prisoners and 350 elephants.[xxxv]

    1020 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked the Chandella kingdom of Vidyadhar
    near Yamuna. The Hindu Sahi kingdom was completely ravaged.
    Vidyadhar & Trilochanpal fled.[xxxvi]

    Mahmud of Ghazni attacked and plundered Bari, the Pratihar
    capital. Bari was razed to the ground.[xxxvii]

    Mahmud of Ghazni chased the Chandella King Vidyadhar.
    Vidyadhar fled. Mahmud of Ghazni captured a huge booty and 580
    elephants.[xxxviii]

    1021 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Qirat & Nur and forced the Hindu
    rulers to embrace Islam. Their temples and idols were destroyed.[xxxix]

    Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Lohkot, In Kashmir.[xl]

    1021-22- Mahmud of Ghazni again launched an attack on the Chandella
    Vidyadhar. Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Gwalior and Lakangara.[xli]

    1024 – Mahmud of Ghazni started to attack the Somnath temple. On the
    way- he ravaged Ludrava, Anahillapataka, Mundur, Dewalwara
    etc. The Chalukya king Bhim I fled. [xlii]

    1025 – He reached Somnath in January 1025. More than 50000 Hindus
    were killed. The booty was worth 20,000,000 dirhams. The temple
    was razed to the ground.[xliii]

    1027 – Mahmud of Ghazni attacked Jats, killed thousands of Jats,
    plundered their wealth.[xliv] He died in AD 1030.

    1034 – Ahmad Niyaltigin plundered Banaras and carried away immense
    booty[xlv]

    1036 – Mahmud’s son Masud attacked Hansi, Sonpat and the kingdom of
    Ram Rai.[xlvi]

    1178 – Muhammad Ghuri attacked Gujarat and plundered Nadol[xlvii]
    1191 – Battle of Tarain. Ghuri attacked Prithviraj- and was routed[xlviii]

    1192 – Second battle of Tarain. He again attacked Prithviraj. One lakh
    Hindu soldiers lost their lives. Prithviraj was killed. Temples were
    demolished. Ghuri left behind his fanatic general Qutubuddin
    Aibak to look after the affairs of India.[xlix]

    1193 – The battle of Chandawar. Muhammad Ghuri killed Jayachandra;
    plundered Asni and Banaras.[l]

    1194 -Qutubuddin Aibak ousted Hari Raj and captured Ajmer,
    demolished 27 temples[li]

    1195 -Muhammad Ghori attacked Bayana and Gwalior[lii]

    1196 -Qutubuddin slaughtered 50,000 Rajputs and enslaved 20,000[liii]

    1197 – Qutubuddin invaded Gujarat[liv]

    1200 – Muhammad Khalji plundered Magadha; slaughtered Buddhist
    monks of Odantapuri Vihar[lv]

    1205 – Qutubuddin and Muizzuddin in the battle between Jhelum and
    Chenab killed Khokars and enslaved many others[lvi]

    1233 -Iltutmish captured Bhilsa and plundered Ujjain[lvii]

    1296 -Alauddin Khalji invaded Devagiri of Maharashtra[lviii]

    1296 to -His discriminatory regulations ruined the Hindus[lix]
    1316

    1305 – Alauddin invaded Malava[lx]

    1309 – His general Malik Kafur invaded Warangal[lxi]

    1310 – Pandya kingdom invaded- immense booty and 250 elephants
    were captured[lxii]

    1325 to- Muhammad Tughlaq ruined Kakatiya, Yadava, Hoysala and
    1351 Pandya dynasties of the South [lxiii]

    Nagaya Gauna, Harihar, Bukka were forced to embrace Islam[lxiv]

    1361 -Firoz Tughlaq slaughtered nearly one lakh Hindus near the Chilka
    lake.[lxv]

    1362 – Muhammad Shah defeated Telangana king Vinayaka Deva and
    killed him with barbarous cruelty[lxvi]

    1458 to – Mahmud Begarha held Hindus of Gujarat in thrall[lxvii]
    1511

    1467 – He invaded and plundered Girnar[lxviii]

    1469 – He attacked Junagadh and forced Mandalika to embrace Islam[lxix]

    1482 – Malik Sudha killed many Hindus of Champaner[lxx]

    1483 – Mahmud Begarha plundered Champaner and killed and converted
    Hindus[lxxi]

    1527 – Babur defeated Rana Sangram and killed him and Rajputs[lxxii]

    1528 – Babur defeated Medini Rai- killed Hindus in Chanderi [lxxiii]

    1565 – In Talikota- alliance of 4 Muslim kings defeated Vijaynagar king
    Rama Raya and thousands of Hindus were killed[lxxiv]
    This was a huge disaster. Within hours of Vijaynagar empire’s defeat, the great city was Vijaynagar was ruined, people fled, thousands were killed, all houses looted, burned and within a few hours the great prosperous city of Vijayanagr was ruined.
    1568 – The battle of Chitor: Akbar defeated the Rajputs and ordered
    massacre of 30,000 non-combatant Hindus[lxxv]

    1663 – The Bijapur Sultan plundered Tirucherapalli[lxxvi]

    1665 – Aurangazeb imposed taxes on Hindu traders[lxxvii]

    1669 – He ordered demolition of schools and temples of Hindus. Many
    temples were demolished-including Kashi, Mathura and Patan
    Somnath[lxxviii]

    1679 – Aurangazeb reimposed jizyah tax on Hindus. Unable to pay this tax
    many Hindus converted to Islam[lxxix]

    1704 – Fifth attack on Anandpur by Vazir Khan. Guru Govind Singh’s
    mother, brothers, followers were killed; his two sons bricked up
    alive in a fort wall and then beheaded because they refused to
    embraced Islam on 27 December 1704[lxxx]

    1708 – Two Pathan Muslims stabbed Guru Govind Singh- he died soon[lxxxi]

    1715 – On Farukh-Siyar’s orders Abdur Samad Khan geared up to
    vanquish Sikh leader Banda. Many Sikhs were massacred[lxxxii]

    1716 – Banda was brutally killed (Details too horrific)[lxxxiii]

    1739 – Nadir Shah of Persian entered Delhi. People of Delhi suffered
    terrible horrors. Their property looted, houses burnt, womenfolk
    raped, the men slaughtered. Three to four lakhs were killed, treasure
    worth 50 crores was plundered.[lxxxiv]

    1748 – Ahmad Shah Abdali’s first invasion of India[lxxxv]

    1750 – His second invasion of India [lxxxvi]

    1751 – His third invasion of India[lxxxvii]

    1756 – His fourth invasion of India[lxxxviii]

    1759 – His fifth invasion of India[lxxxix]

    1761 – His sixth invasion of India and the Third Battle of Panipat (on 14
    Jan 1761) –in which the Hindus were crushed[xc]
    1764 – His seventh invasion of India[xci]

    1767 – His eighth invasion of India[xcii]

    These are just a few (repeat, just a few) examples. All these were foreigners’ attacks on India. But even after the end of the foreign Muslim rule-and during the British rule- there were numerous riots between Hindus and Muslims in India. In almost all these riots- Hindus suffered far more than Muslims. Even Mahatma Gandhi had to acknowledge this.
    In 1921- in Malabar Moplahs committed horrible atrocities on Hindus- thousands were killed and thousands converted.[xciii]

    In 1926 Swami Shraddhananda was murdered by a man named Abdul Rashid.[xciv]

    And in 1946- on 16 August was the Direct Action Day of the Muslim League- and this saw the great Calcutta killings[xcv]

    At the same time- horrible Naokhali riots were also seen.[xcvi]

    The past is- never ever- far from the present. Hindus suffered horribly at the hands of foreigners for many centuries. This is just a brief summary. The horrid, lurid details of these events will make one’s hair stand on end. We saw after 1947 how Islam finished the entire Hindu population in Pakistan where Hindus are reduced to just 1-2 % now from 20 % in 1947 in West Pakistan and just 10 % in 2001 in Bangladesh from 29 % in 1947 and 34 % in 1901. In Pakistan, it was the world’s biggest unreported genocide, holocaust and massacre of minorities never reported or protested by anyone. And the West, until recently used to consider Pakistan as a tolerant Islamic state! Of course this is because the 20 % population finished by Pakistan was of Hindus.

    Hindu population in India declined by 80 million from AD 1000 to AD 1525, perhaps the biggest ever holocaust in human history. This doesnt mean a mere 80 million killings. Many estimates put the number of Hindus killed in India as 280 million while Swami Vivekananda opined that the number was more than 400 million (Hindus reducing from 60 crores to 20 crores).

    • Idoitsrule

      History of kabulisthan which afghans need to know so they can get rid of the disease of taliban, same with pakisthan. Let Harvard spread this knowledge, if it wants realu multipluralism
      ARAB FAILURE IN SINDH, KABUL AND
      ZABUL
      Let harvard teach this history to afghans. Doubt that the indian studies in harvard will have any clue. But this is the remedy for taliban disease affecting pak and afghan.

      In Chapter I of his
      book, Dr. Misra gives dates as well as details regarding the rapid conquests
      made by the armies of Islam after the death of its prophet in AD 632. The
      Byzantine provinces of Palestine and Syria fell to them after a six month’s
      campaign in AD 636-637. Next came the turn of the Sassanid empire of Persia
      which included Iraq, Iran, and Khorasan. The Persians were
      defeated decisively in AD 637, and their entire empire was overrun in the next
      few years. “By A.D. 643 the boundaries of the Caliphate touched the frontiers of
      India.”1 The Turkish speaking territories of Inner
      Mongolia, Bukhara, Tashkand, and Samarkand, etc. were annexed by AD 650.
      Meanwhile, in the west, the Byzantine province of Egypt had fallen in AD
      640-641. The Arab armies marched over North Africa till they reached the
      Atlantic and crossed over into Spain in AD 709.

      These
      were not mere territorial conquests. Dr. Misra observes: “Astonishing as these
      victories of Islamic armies were, equally amazing was the ease and rapidity with
      which people of different creeds and races were assimilated within the Islamic
      fold. Syrians, Persians, Berbers, Turks and others – all were rapidly Islamised
      and their language and culture Arabicised.”2 He also quotes an appropriate passage of the Quran which had
      inspired the Arabs to decimate and denationalise those who were defeated by
      them: “Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them,
      beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem till they repeat and
      establish regular prayers and practise regular charity.”3

      The same Islamic
      armies, however, had to struggle for 69 long years to make their first effective
      breach in the borders of India. In the next three centuries, they pushed forward
      in several provinces of Northern and Western India. But at the end of it all,
      India was far from being conquered militarily or assimilated culturally. The
      Arab invasion of India ended in a more or less total failure. Dr. Misra tells
      the full story in the next two chapters of his book.

      ARAB FAILURE IN
      SINDH

      The
      Arab invasion of Sindh started soon after their first two naval expeditions
      against Thana on the coast of Maharashtra and Broach on the coast of Gujarat,
      had been repulsed in the reign of Caliph Umar (AD 634-644). The expedition
      against Debal in Sindh met the same fate “The leader of the Arab army,
      Mughairah, was defeated and killed.”4 Umar decided to send another army by land against Makran which was
      at that time a part of the kingdom of Sindh. But he was advised by the governor
      of Iraq that “he should think no more of Hind”.5 The
      next Caliph, Usman (AD 646-656), followed the same advice and refrained from
      sending any expedition against Sindh, either by land or by sea. The fourth
      Caliph, Ali (AD 656-661), sent an expedition by land in AD 660. But the leader
      of this expedition and “those who were with him, saving a few, were slain in the
      land of Kikan in the year AH 42 (AD 662)”. Thus the four “pious” Caliphs of
      Islam died without hearing the news of a victory over “Sindh or
      Hind”.

      Muawiyah, the
      succeeding Caliph (AD 661-680), sent as many as six expeditions by land. All of
      them were repulsed with great slaughter except the last one which succeeded in
      occupying Makran in AD 680. For the next 28 years, the Arabs did not dare send
      another army against Sindh. The next expedition was despatched to take Debal in
      AD 708. Its two successive commanders, Ubaidullah and Budail, were killed and
      the Arab army was routed. When Hajjaj, the governor of Iraq, asked the Caliph
      for permission to send another expedition, the Caliph wrote back: “This affair will be a source of great anxiety and so we must put it
      off, for every time an army goes, [vast] numbers of Mussalmans are killed. So
      think no more of such a design.”6

      But
      Hajjaj was a very tenacious imperialist. He spent the next four years in
      equipping an army more formidable than any which had so far been sent against
      Sindh. While sending off his nephew as well as son-in-law, Muhammad bin Qasim,
      with this army in AD 712, Hajjaj said: “I swear by Allah that I am determined to
      spend the whole wealth of Iraq, that is in my possession, on this
      expedition.”7 Muhammad was successful in overcoming
      the fierce resistance he met at every step in his progress through Sindh. By AD
      713 he had occupied the whole of this province as well as Multan. He was helped to a certain extent by the treachery of some merchants
      and local governors at a few places. But as soon as he was recalled in AD 714,
      “the people of India rebelled, and threw off their yoke, and the country from
      Debalpur to the Salt Sea only remained under the dominions of the
      Khalifa.”8 This was only a narrow coastal
      strip.

      Subsequently, the
      Islamic armies reconquered Sindh, and advanced through Rajputana upto Ujjain in
      the east and Broach in the south. “But the success of the Arab armies was
      short-lived. Their advance to the south was signally checked by the Chalukya
      ruler of Lat (S. Gujarat), Pulakesin Avani-Janasraya. The Navasari inscription
      (A.D. 738) records that Pulakesin defeated a Tajika (Arab) army which had
      defeated the kingdoms of Sindhu, Cutch, Saurashtra, Cavotaka, Maurya and Gurjara
      and advanced as far south as Navasari where this prince was ruling at this time.
      The prince’s heroic victory earned him the titles of ‘solid Pillar of
      Dakshinapatha (Dakshinapatha-sadhata) and the Repeller of the
      Unrepellable (Anivarttaka-nivartayi)’. The Gwalior
      inscription of the Gurjara-Pratihar King, Bhoja I, tells us that Nagabhatta I,
      the founder of the family who ruled in Avanti (Malwa) around A.D. 725, ‘defeated
      the army of a powerful Mlechha ruler who invaded his dominions’.9 The Gurjara-Pratiharas were known to the
      Arab historians as ‘kings of Jurz’. Referring to one of these kings, an Arab
      historian wrote that ‘Among the princes of India there is no greater foe of the
      Mohammaden faith than he’.”10

      The Arabs also made
      advances to the north of Sindh into the Punjab and towards Kashmir. Here they
      were blocked and driven back by Lalitaditya Muktapida (AD 724-760) of Kashmir.
      He was in alliance with Yasovarman of Central India. “He is said to have ordered
      the Turushkas to shave off half of their heads as a symbol of their
      submission.” Dr. Misra cites Biladhuri who wrote that “the
      Mussalmans retired from several parts of India and left some of their positions,
      nor have they upto the present advanced so far as in days gone by”.11 And he mourned, “The people of India returned to
      idolatry with the exception of the inhabitants of Qasbah. A
      place of refuge to which the Moslems might flee was not to be found, so he [Arab
      governor] built on the further side of the lake, where it borders on al-Hind, a
      city which he named at-Mahfuzah [the protected] establishing it as a place of
      refuge for them, where they should be secure and making it a capital.”12

      Arab travellers to
      India of the 10th century “all speak of only two independent Arab principalities
      with Multan and Mansurah as their capitals”. The Pratihara kings waged constant
      war “against the Arab prince of Multan, and with the Mussalmans, his subjects on
      the frontier”. Multan would have been lost by the Arabs but for a Hindu temple.
      Dr. Misra quotes Al-Istakhri who wrote about AD 951 that in Multan “there is an
      idol held in great veneration by the Hindus and every year people from distant
      parts undertake pilgrimages to it… When the Indians make war upon them and
      endeavour to seize the idol, the inhabitants [Arabs] bring it out pretending
      that they will break it and burn it. Upon this the Indians retire, otherwise
      they would destroy Multan.” Finally, he observes: “Thus after three centuries of
      unremitting effort, we find the Arab dominion in India limited to two petty
      states of Multan and Mansurah. And here, too, they could exist
      only after renouncing their iconoclastic zeal and utilizing the idols for their
      own political ends. It is a very strange sight to see them seeking shelter
      behind the very budds, they came here to destroy.”13

      It has to be kept in
      mind all along that the Arab empire in this period was the mightiest power on
      earth. Compared to this monolithic and highly militarised giant, the Hindu
      principalities of Sindh and other border areas were no better than pygmies. Yet
      the pygmies had the last laugh at the end of the 10th century when the Islamised
      Turks took over from the Arabs the Islamic crusade against “Sind and Hind”. It
      was the old story of Alexander and the small republics of the Punjab and Sindh,
      all over again.

      INSIDE STORY OF ARAB
      “LIBERALISM”

      Dr. Misra concludes
      his chapter on Sindh with a very meaningful note. “From a political or
      missionary point of view,” he writes, “the Arab conquest of Sindh was certainly
      a minor affair. The Arab conquest of other countries, outside India, had been
      followed by wholesale conversions and supplanting of local institutions by
      Islamic ones… The Islamic law had divided unbelievers into two classes, viz.,
      the People of the Book (Ahl-i-Kitãb), the possessors of Scriptures – the
      Jews and the Christians – and the idolaters. The former were not to be lawfully
      molested in any way so long as they accepted the rule of the conquerors and paid
      the Jezia. But for the idolaters, the choice was between Islam and death. In
      Central Asia, the idolaters had been rooted out. But this experiment failed in
      Sindh as Islam was confronted with a faith which, though idolatrous, defied
      death and looked at life in this world as one link in the eternal chain of
      births and deaths. The experiment was only tried at Debal where the ‘temples
      were demolished and mosques founded; a general massacre endured for three days,
      prisoners were taken captive; plunder was amassed’. Thus under
      compulsion of events, the stem code of Islam was relaxed, the Hindus were
      allowed to rebuild their temples and perform their worship and the three per
      cent which had been allowed to the priests under the former government was not
      discontinued.”14

      Many historians,
      particularly the apologists for Islam, have presented this expediency as a proof
      of Islamic liberalism under the early Arabs. They have contrasted this Arab
      “liberalism” with the “fanaticism” of the Turks who joined the fold of Islam at
      a later stage. Dr. Misra does not make this mistake. He has laid bare the true
      motivation at the back of this “liberalism”, and thus restored the perspective
      on the plasticity of Islamic polity in the over-all framework of the fundamental
      Islamic law regarding treatment of non-believers. The mullahs and sufis of Islam
      might have howled over this dilution of the dogma. But the military and
      political leaders always knew when and where to make a compromise in the
      interests of self-preservation, and till the next stage of aggrandisement
      arrived in the vicissitudes of war. Lenin has also exhorted the party to know
      exactly when to practise tactics of retreat. Islam, after all, is Communism plus
      Allah, as Allami Iqbal has observed so aptly.

      HEROIC DEFENCE OF KABUL AND
      ZABUL

      The same story was
      repeated by the Hindu kingdoms of Kabul (Kapisa) and Zabul (Jabal) which lay to
      the north-west of Sindh, and which the Islamic armies had started attacking soon
      after they annexed Khorasan in AD 643. It was in AD 650 that the first Islamic
      army penetrated deep into Zabul by way of Seistan, which at that time was a part
      of India territorially as well as culturally. The struggle was grim and
      prolonged. The Islamic army suffered heavy losses. In the final round, the
      invader was defeated and driven out.

      Another attack
      followed in AD 653. The Arab general, Abdul Rahman, was able to conquer Zabul
      and levy tribute from Kabul. The king of Kabul, however, proved desultory in
      paying regularly what the Arabs thought to be their due. Finally, another Arab
      general, Yazid ibn Ziyad who had been the governor of Seistan for some time,
      attempted retribution in AD 683. He was killed by the Hindus, and his army was
      put to flight with great slaughter. The Arabs lost Seistan also, and had to pay
      5,00,000 dirhams to get one of their generals, Abu Ubaida,
      released.

      But the Arabs,
      inspired as they were by an imperialist ideology, did not give up. They
      recovered Seistan some time before AD 692. Its new governor, Abdullah, invaded
      Kabul. The Hindus trapped the Arab army in the mountain passes after allowing it
      to advance unopposed for some distance. Abdullah agreed to cease hostilities,
      and the king of Kabul agreed to renew payment of an annual tribute. But the
      treaty was denounced by the Caliph who dismissed Abdullah. The
      war against Kabul was renewed in AD 695 when Hajjaj became the governor of Iraq.
      He sent an army under Ubaidullah, the new governor of Seistan. Ubaidullah was
      defeated and forced to retreat after leaving his three sons as hostages and
      promising that “he shall not fight as long as he was governor”.15 Once again, the treaty was denounced by the Caliph, and
      another general, Shuraih, tried to advance upon Kabul. He was killed by the
      Hindus, and his army suffered huge losses as it retreated through the desert of
      Bust. Poor Ubaidullah died of grief. That was the third round won by the Hindu
      kingdom of Kabul.

      In the
      next round, Hajjaj commissioned Abdul Rahman once again. He made some conquests
      but could not consolidate his hold. Hajjaj threatened to supersede him. Abdul
      Rahman revolted and entered into a treaty with the Hindu king to “carry arms
      against his master”.16 The treaty
      did not work, and Abdul Rahman committed suicide. The Hindu king, however,
      continued the war. Masudi, the Arab historian, “makes mention of a prince in the
      valley of the Indus who after having subjugated Eastern Persia, advanced to the
      bank of the Tigris and Euphrates”.17 Hajjaj had to
      make peace according to which the Hindu king was entitled to keep his kingdom in
      exchange for an annual tribute. The Hindu king, however, stopped payment in the
      reign of Caliph Sulayman (AD 715-717). Some attempts to force him into
      submission were made in the reign of Caliph Al-Mansur (AD 745-775). But they met
      with only partial success, and we find the Hindus ruling over Kabul and Zabul in
      the year AD 867. The Arabs had failed once again to conquer finally another
      small Hindu principality, in spite of their being the mightiest power on earth.
      The struggle had lasted for more than two hundred years.

      The kingdom of Kabul
      suffered a temporary eclipse in AD 870 but not on account of the Arabs, nor as a
      result of a clash of arms. The Turkish adventurer, Yaqub bin Layth, “who started
      his career as a robber in Seistan and later on founded the Saffarid dynasty of
      Persia”, sent a message to the king of Kabul that he wanted to come and pay his
      homage. The king was deceived into welcoming Yaqub and a band of the latter’s
      armed followers in the court at Kabul. Yaqub “bowed his head as if to do homage
      but he raised the lance and thrust it into the back of Rusal so that he died on
      the spot”. A Turkish army then invaded the Hindu kingdoms of both Kabul and
      Zabul. The king of Zabul was killed in the battle, and the population was
      converted to Islam by force. That was a permanent loss to India. But the succeeding Hindu king of Kabul who had meanwhile
      transferred his capital to Udbhandapur on the Indus, recovered Kabul after the
      Saffarid dynasty declined. Masudi who visited the Indus Valley in AD 915
      “designates the prince who ruled at Kabul by the same title as he held when the
      Arabs penetrated for the first time into this region”.18

      The Hindus lost Kabul
      for good only in the closing decade of the 10th century. In AD 963 Alaptigin, a
      Turkish slave of the succeeding Samanid dynasty, had been able to establish an
      independent Muslim principality in Kabul with his seat at Ghazni. It was his
      general and successor, Subuktigin, who conquered Kabul after a struggle spread
      over two decades. The Hindus under king Jayapala of Udbhandapur made a bold bid
      to recapture Kabul in AD 986-987. A confederate Hindu army to which the Rajas of
      Delhi, Ajmer, Kalinjar and Kanauj has contributed troops and money, advanced
      into the heartland of the Islamic kingdom of Ghazni. “According to Utbi, the
      battle lasted several days and the warriors of Subuktigin, including prince
      Mahmood, were ‘reduced to despair.’ But a snow-storm and rains upset the plans
      of Jayapala who opened negotiations for peace. He sent the
      following message to Subuktigin: ‘You have heard and know the nobleness of
      Indians – they fear not death or destruction… In affairs of honour and renown we
      would place ourselves upon the fire like roast meat, and upon the dagger like
      the sunrays.’”19 But the peace thus
      concluded proved temporary. The Muslims resumed the offensive and the Hindus
      were defeated and driven out of Kabul. Dr. Mishra concludes with the comment
      that Jayapala “was perhaps the last Indian ruler to show such spirit of
      aggression,

    • Huyogisays

      I could quote similar documentation and versions of history countering all that like BN Pandey’s ‘Muslim rule in India’ or this, say, http://www.archive.org/stream/mughalempirefrom032770mbp/mughalempirefrom032770mbp_djvu.txt, but that would be pointless back-n-forth. Let’s just say i agree with you, yea, ‘em darn Muslim invaders were real badasses, especially that Ghazni fella, as are the Taliban. So…?

      • Huyogisays

        Are you favoring a repeat of all that barbarism, and are you actually condoning the lunatic who advocates similar actions if Muslims will not comply with his insolent demands, are you out of your mind?

        • Huyogisays

          Let’s get this clear once and for all, nobody has disputed yet that swamy’s article was a distasteful, hate-filled, violence-inciting, objectionable bit of regurgitation, and that Harvard should not have any association with it, direct or indirect. All they are debating is the procedural aspect of it and whether the guidelines were properly followed, their (the intelligentsia’s) precious ‘freedom of speech’ policy and whether it was violated by giving him the boot.

          • Huyogisays

            And i will not be a hypocrite, yes i enjoy saying that over and over, swamy got the boo-ooot! :chortle: There, now you can go ahead and say what you would really like to.

  • Sharmayogesh29

    American Universities and Institutes of higher learning have been mortgaged to the Islamist because of the malaise of Petro dollars. Saudi Arabia is the fountainhead of Islamic terrorism. Saudis are using their perto money to subvert free speech in the Western countries. Islamists have also subverted the intellectual freedom of universties and institutions by large ‘donations’ of ill gotten wealth.

  • Huyogisays

    This is so sad, i am driven to tears for the man.

    • Ka010185

      huyogi ek racist islamic hehadi chutiya hai

      • Huyogisays

        Welcome to the world of free speech! I should warn you that there are certain unstated ground rules here too..only if you have the conscientiousness and finesse to follow them..no big deal if you don’t give a damn…

        • Huyogisays

          Oh look at the poor man, he’s desperately seeking precedents for bigotry that he can cite..sad, sad…

        • Ka010185

          Abey gadhe tu apni soch ka prachaar kar aur mujhe matt batta kya karna hai…. time batayega bharat ki kahani..terre jaise chutiyoon ki mass appeal bahut tight ho gai hai.. tum jaise secular abb anti hindu bshasha boolne lage ho..is liye tumhari whavaa jald hi nikal jaee gi..JARRA SOCHHOO…

    • Huyogisays

      If he had even the slightest bit of civility or graciousness in him he wouldn’t have turned on his own alma-mater with such viciousness, kind of exposes his beastliness, doesn’t it?

  • Robertspencer

     
     
     
    Huyogi says Muslim invaders were real badasses, especially that Ghazni fella, as are the Taliban. So…?   
    Talibani sympathisers can post in their jihadi blogs. The boston radio website IS AN AMERICAN WEBSITE NOT JIHADI BLOG.
     

     
     
    Huyogi says we are talking civilized society here, get that into thick hate-filled head, you bigoted piece of filth! Don’t go out of your way to defend bigotry, cretin, i hold bigots of all kinds, irrespective of caste, creed or color, in utter contempt.( expect for talibanis, terrorists, their sympahtisers)

    • Huyogisays

      Firstly, you are misquoting me with that addendum in brackets to my words, secondly, if i for a minute was misusing this as some sort of jehadi blog, meghna would have cut me off long before..not that i deny the inappropriateness of some of my posts..so suck it up!

  • Huyogisays

    Swamy’s semi-literate stand-in on Twitter, Ramu and a sample of his following; enjoy.

  • Huyogisays

    Check out the ungrateful vindictive wretch make allegations and encourage conspiracy theories.

  • Justice4all

    The truth of the matter is the entire world is concerned about Islamic Jihad. While there are people who are now ‘Islamaphobic’, there is small group of people who have become ‘Islam apologists’ like Diana Eck, Sugato Bose and others.

    Islamic Extremists destory the temples and build mosques, and then government becomes responsible for protecting the mosque to protect the sentiments of ALL Muslims! In this deal the good, bad & the ugly are Muslims, so no room or mention about anyone else or their sentiments!

    No one can demand for the past to be forgotten, the entire justice system in the world is based on PAST, I don’t think the world has become advanced enough to catch a criminal & punish them in real-time!

    • Huyogisays

      Enough of the BS, you mealy mouthed communal shithead, it’s just you and your ilk which is obsessed with their resentment of Muslims, because they have been brought up to think that some Mughal might have raped one of their female ancestor in times of yore.

      • Huyogisays

        Get over it, happened a long time ago, was probably even consensual and not rape as popularly alleged, the frustrated wife dazzled by the charms of the dashing conquerer in all the glory of his shining armor..think about it, anyways..bygones…

        • Idiotsrule

          Is that the logic behind the throwing of stones on women by the talibanis.
          So hutali thanks for answering the question  why there  is no right for raped women in taliban  law.

          • Huyogisays

            Scru the Taliban, we keep constantly going off on a tangent, please don’t lose focus..we are discussing free speech, how contaminated it can it justifiably be with centuries old grudges, the extent to which it should be permitted, and when  banned as a hate-mongering incitement to violence..or held in contempt as an irresponsible and opportunistic exploitation of a tragedy by a slimy unscrupulous politician, FOCUS.

  • Ka010185

    Abey gadhe tu apni soch ka prachaar kar aur mujhe matt batta kya karna
    hai…. time batayega bharat ki kahani..terre jaise chutiyoon ki mass
    appeal bahut tight ho gai hai.. tum jaise secular abb anti hindu bshasha
    boolne lage ho..is liye tumhari whavaa jald hi nikal jaee gi..JARRA
    SOCHHOO…

  • Huyogisays

    Harvard finds him and his views obnoxious, so does civilized society, there’s already a police complaint filed against him to show that he is in violation of Indian laws, and to top it all now, no less than the judiciary has rebuked him and ordered him to refrain from his mischief..what more will it take to convince the savages following him that the man is a loathsome bigot!

    • Ka010185

      gadhe huyogi the complaint is a sonia maino’s move to stop him from exposing the congress on huge losses to the nation in terms of corruption and black money no wonder the telecommunication minister and other including a few politicians etc are in jail all due to him and now she herself is feeling threatened and so all this drama was created which now has backfired and the court has asked the police to file a reply as the courts feel that swamy was harassed by the sonia’s congress party.Toh gadhe zahill huyogi apne app ko rest de aur kuch constructive kar

    • http://www.facebook.com/deepak.jha Deepak Jha

       Let me clarify why we listen  to what he says:

      —Masters in Stats, came to Harvard, Phd in Economics (full scholarships)
      —Elected Member of Parliament five times (1974-99), held Cabinet twice; worked for United Nations Secretariat, New York in 1963 and as Member of India’s Planning Commission (1990-91) and held numerous posts for international organizations.
      —MOST IMP. READ CLOSELY: He fought against the declaration of emergency against one of the most powerful Prime Ministers of India Indira Gandhi. During the period of emergency, he fled to America, seeking safe haven with a Indian businessman in Michigan who had become the spokesperson of opposition in the US. In 1976 when emergency was still in force and an arrest warrant issued in his name, he came to parliament to attend the session and managed to escape India after attending the session. (read: what the conditions were back then)
      —He was the real harbinger of economic reforms in India and not Manmohan Singh.
      —He has been subject to numerous defamation cases, fought numerous corruption cases and won most of them without the agency of lawyers. He has seldom lost a case. Getting a small rebuke from HC is nothing.
      —For the first time in the history of India, a cabinet minister went to jail on charges of corruption, thanks to him. (A Raja)
      —He is not afraid to say and do what he thinks is right.

      And either because you are not an Indian or you are a scared Talibani, you keep babbling. In India, to charge powerful people of corruption and crime means you are dead. To remain alive either you have to be a Jason Bourne or you gotta have a clean and clear integrity. He’s definitely not  Jason Bourne.

  • Huyogisays

    No it wasn’t like that, here’s what happened;

    “Justice
    M.L. Mehta granted interim protection to Dr. Swamy on an undertaking by
    him that he would not write such articles in the future and issued
    notice to the Delhi Police for its response on Dr. Swamy’s anticipatory
    bail plea.

    While hearing Dr. Swamy’s plea, Justice Mehta observed, “We are a
    secular country and we should respect the system which we have.”

    The court said, “It is not a European country like Britain. We have a diversity and we should be proud of it.

    “If you (Swamy) give an undertaking that you will not write anything
    based on the book, I’ll grant you the relief,” the judge said.

    The court’s observation came after Dr. Swamy’s counsel, senior
    advocate K.T.S. Tulsi, argued that as he (Swamy) has exposed 2G scam
    against the government, this case has been lodged to harass him.

    The counsel also said that Dr. Swamy had written the article based on
    a book, which he had written six years ago, but no untoward incident
    had happened after that and suddenly the police registered a case
    against him soon after he exposed the 2G scam.

    Dr. Swamy had moved the high court on Thursday seeking anticipatory bail
    in the case filed against him in October last year by the Crime Branch
    of Delhi Police for writing an article in a newspaper in July last year
    which, it said, tended to spread communal enmity.

    Dr. Swamy, however, has denied all charges levelled by Delhi Police in the FIR. (Liar, liar, pants on fire)
    The matter will now come up on January 30.

    Source : The Hindu

    • Congo

      looks like you have a full-time anti-swamy job, how much does Congress pay you for this?

  • Donotcryfor2gscamsters

    “The counsel also said that Dr. Swamy had written the article based on a book, which he had written six years ago, but no untoward incident had happened after that and suddenly the police registered a case against him soon after he exposed the 2G scam.-”
    It takes 6 years for harvard and police to act!!!! probably took 6 years for scamsters to petition!!!So much for their concern for muslims!!!!

    Terrorist fighters get sent to court by the current scamster government . Terrorists are going around freely.Parliament bomber has not yet been hanged even after supreme court verdict.

    The home minister thought he could put Dr.Swamy to prison using some  pretext. Now the prosecutor turned blue when the judge gave the bail.

    Dr.Swamy is going to present his case on 21 january  against the home minister regarding the biggest scam on the earth.

    Only Dr.Swamy can fight against this scamsters.

    • Protestagaisntcorruptsentjail

      Yes. This idiots have even arrested Hazare. His crime to sit on fast against corruption and askin for anti-corruption bill. The magistrate sent him to Tihar jail!!!

      From News24online16/8/11
      New Delhi: Anti-graft crusader Anna Hazare sent to seven days judicial custody after he was produced before judicial magistrate here on Tuesday. After his arrest by the Delhi Police, anti-graft activist Anna Hazare started his fast in police custody here. After arresting him ahead of his fast, Police took him to Police mess at Alipur Road. Two other prominent activists Arvind Kejriwal and Kiran Bedi were also taken into preventing custody at Rajghat.
      The 73-year-old Gandhian was taken into custody from a residential area in Mayur Vihar before he was to proceed to the venue of his fast in JP Park where prohibitory orders are in place. According to sources, senior police officials, including DCP (Crime) Ashok Chand, met with Hazare this morning at an east Delhi apartment where he was staying in a bid to convince him to not go ahead with his planned protest defying prohibitory orders at J P Park.
      However, Hazare turn down the request following which he was detained. “We have detained him as he did not budge from his position of defying prohibitory orders,” police official said. Flaying the police move, Bedi said, “Emergency has revisited the country.” “This detention is undemocratic and unconstitutional,” she said.
      Around 500 supporters were with Anna at the time of his detention. Chanting ‘Bharat Mata ki jai’ and ‘Vande Matram,’ supporters created hurdles in the way of the police which were trying to take him to a nearby police station.
      Around 500 police personnel have been deployed from early morning itself after the city police imposed Section 144 around the park, police sources said. Hazare had yesterday asked his supporters to fill up jails across the country if he was arrested after being denied permission to hold fast here.
      After Prime Minister Manmohan Singh slammed him for resorting to fast as a protest when Parliament was seized of the Lokpal bill, the Gandhian had said he will go to J P park despite Delhi police imposing prohibitory orders.
      “I come to understand that I will be refused permission. We will go there. If I am arrested, I will continue my hunger strike in jail. If I am released, I will go back to the venue and this circle will continue,” he had said. He said once he is arrested, people should fill up the jails in every village across the country. “Going to jail for the country is no crime…It is a decoration,” he said.
      Delhi Police spokesperson Rajan Bhagat had said that prohibitory orders under Section 144 CrPC has been imposed in some areas of Daryaganj and IP police stations, which include Jai Prakash Narain Park and Shaheed Park. Hazare had also accused the Prime Minister of “speaking” the language of his ministerial colleague Kapil Sibal, saying the Lokpal bill was before Parliament which will take the call.

  • Huyogisays

    I am blessed that my ancestors made the decision to stay on in this land of the free at the time of partition, and proud that i can give a rat’s ass about the howling mob of hate mongering hyenas like you despite being in a minority, the only way you can get to me is by violating the Constitution  and killing me in cold-blood as you did the Muslims in Gujarat and elsewhere.

    • Robertspencer

      That is because your ancestors said they were hindoo muslims and not the wahabi muslims. They owed more to the indian soil than to the arabs.Even today the rulings or decision of pakisthan is made in saudi or dubai, and not in soil of pakishtan.

      On the other hand pakishtan/indian/afghan ,muslims do not get any rights in saudi or Dubai.They do not get the citizenship or oil rights  of this countries.
      .
      On the other hand India/USA/Europe/Australia have given citizenship to this countries . but paradoxically people who get citizenship in this countries want saudi/shariath laws in their new motherland.

      if you do not take part in train burning or terrorist bombings  no one is crazy like osama to sacrifice you.

      • Huyogisays

        No they didn’t, they said “in your face infidel, we are staying”, and in that proud tradition i am going to tell you to take your “Hindoo” ancestry and your Vande thingee and stick it up yours.

        • Huyogisays

          I will concede though that i couldn’t have done the same in a backward country like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia with extreme interpretations and implementations of religious laws in their legislature..which is exactly what you fanatics are striving for, and i say go duck yourself, bigots to that attempt.

          • Huyogisays

            I mean “…duck yourselves bigots,…”

  • I_support_swamy

    Dr Swamy’s Article about 2011 Mumbai bombings (Wikipedia) In response to the 2011 Mumbai bombings, he wrote an editorial in Daily News and Analysis (DNA) Some of Swamy’s Controversial suggestions in the article.

    – The Hindu is the target and that Muslims of India are being programmed by a slow reactive process to become radical and thus slide into suicide against Hindus.—- I agree with this, Indian Intelligence already have information on Indian Muslim Individuals carrying out Terrorist Attack on behalf of Pakistan Millitants/ISI. In Kerala & Karnataka young college girls have become Love Jihad victims converted to Islam. Madrasses are propping up in India teaching religious discrimination to Muslims kids.

    – Remove Article 370, and re-settle ex-servicemen in the Valley. Create Panun Kashmir for Hindu Pandit community. Look or create opportunity to take over PoK. If Pakistan continues to back terrorists, assist the Baluchis and Sindhis to struggle for independence. —- PoK is illegally occupied by Pakistan and managed by their puppet goverment, people in PoK are subjected to poor living conditions. New report indicate there are over 45 Terrorist camps in PoK with 2500 Terrorists. Kashmiri Pandit community was tortured and kicked out of their homes & forced to live in refugee camps! All Indian should be able to live anywhere in India including Kashmir.

    – Remove the masjid in Kashi Vishwanath temple complex, and 300 others in other sites as a tit-for-tat. —- The Masjids were illegally build by the brutal Mughal invaders on top of the temple. The humanity stands against anything acquired by brutal means, justice should prevail, the temples should be restored where they belong.

    – Make Sanskrit learning compulsory and singing of Vande Mataram mandatory, and declare India as Hindu Rashtra in which only those non-Hindus can vote if they proudly acknowledge that their ancestors are Hindus. Re-name India as Hindustan as a nation of Hindus and those whose ancestors are Hindus. —- Indians are smart bunch of people on an average already learning 3 to 4 languages, sure we can learn sanskrit and more than happy to sing Vande Mataram. India need to break-free from the british colonialism culture and restore it’s orginal identity by renaming to Hindustan and having everyone sharing the same DNA acknowledge the truth of their Hindu ancestory.

    – Enact a national law prohibiting conversion from Hindu religion to any other religion.—- This will reduce victimization of Hindus who are in most cases forcefully or unethically converted to other religion

    • Huyogisays

      As i said before, you can tell your sorryass deluded bigot of a master to take his “hindoo” ancestry obsession and Vande crap and stick it up his. Nobody’s going to take him seriously and he shall wander the earth like a shunned and shamed intellectual outcast for the rest of his days.

      • Huyogisays

        Another thing, Sanskrit was a dead language like Greek and Latin long before the Muslim invasion, that’s why they had to come up with Hindi, a sanskritized  version of Urdu and create a lingua franca out of it. Personally, i wouldn’t mind picking up a new language, but trying to impose a dead language constitutionally? Get the hell outta here!

        • Huyogisays

          And you can blame it all on your casteism or ‘varanas’ as you would fondly term it after undergoing several painful semantic contortions ..your Brahminical class restricted it’s study to the elite and “superior” castes for centuries, the language was bound to die a natural death. All your tantrums and threshing, the Sanskrit news, the propaganda, none of it is  going to bring it back to life

      • Full2

        well, keep screaming while sticking your butt all day and typing bull-shit. No one takes you seriously, we don’t even know what the hell you have done in life…

        Atleast in regards to Swamy he has been teaching and fighting against corruption. Liars & hate-mongers like you might not like honest people like Swamy!

        I don’t think anyone is really interested in your shitty intellectual mastrubation

  • Robertspencer

     will concede though that i couldn’t have done the same in a backward country like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia with extreme interpretations and implementations of religious laws in their legislature.- Huyogi says.

    Hu that is what everyone in the world from india to england to germany to netherlands to australia to indonesia is yelling.But their voice is shut, including in harvard.

    That is why oppose sharia, fight against terrorism, and fight for freedom of speech.Fight for uniform civil code, no personal law., like in shah bano case.

    Otherwise whole world will be like talibani country.

    • Huyogisays

      Okie-doke, what do i have to do? Please tell me it’s not having to excuse bigots like Swamy or supporting the likes of him.

      • Huyogisays

        Rob, you’ll love this, got it in the mail; “Muslim version of Adam and Eve”

        • Robertspencer

          Found in sites about the holy site, and questions which were the 365 statues destroyed. Why do they go around seven times?why do they drink holy water?hope one day saudi will allow study of archaeology.

          By P.N. Oak (Historian)
          Glancing through some research material recently, I was pleasantly surprised to come across a reference to a king Vikramaditya inscription found in the Kaaba in Mecca proving beyond doubt that the Arabian Peninsula formed a part of his Indian Empire.The text of the crucial Vikramaditya inscription, found inscribed on a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, is found recorded on page 315 of a volume known as ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ treasured in the Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey. Rendered in free English the inscription says:”Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during king Vikram’s reign. He was a noble, generous dutiful ruler, devoted to the welfare of his subjects. But at that time we Arabs, oblivious of God, were lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting and torture were rampant. The darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb struggling for her life in the cruel paws of a wolf we Arabs were caught up in ignorance. The entire country was enveloped in a darkness so intense as on a new moon night. But the present dawn and pleasant sunshine of education is the result of the favour of the noble king Vikramaditya whose benevolent supervision did not lose sight of us- foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred religion amongst us and sent scholars whose brilliance shone like that of the sun from his country to ours. These scholars and preceptors through whose benevolence we were once again made cognisant of the presence of God, introduced to His sacred existence and put on the road of Truth, had come to our country to preach their religion and impart education at king Vikramaditya’s behest.”For those who would like to read the Arabic wording I reproduce it hereunder in Roman script:”Itrashaphai Santu Ibikramatul Phahalameen Karimun Yartapheeha Wayosassaru Bihillahaya Samaini Ela Motakabberen Sihillaha Yuhee Quid min howa Yapakhara phajjal asari nahone osirom bayjayhalem. Yundan blabin Kajan blnaya khtoryaha sadunya kanateph netephi bejehalin Atadari bilamasa- rateen phakef tasabuhu kaunnieja majekaralhada walador. As hmiman burukankad toluho watastaru hihila Yakajibaymana balay kulk amarena phaneya jaunabilamary Bikramatum”. (Page 315 Sayar-ul-okul). [Note: The title ‘Saya-ul-okul’ signifies memorable words.]A careful analysis of the above inscription enables us to draw the following conclusions:1. That the ancient Indian empires may have extended up to the eastern boundaries of Arabia until Vikramaditya and that it was he who for the first time conquered Arabia. Because the inscription says that king Vikram who dispelled the darkness of ignorance from Arabia. 2. That, whatever their earlier faith, King Vikrama’s preachers had succeeded in spreading the Vedic (based on the Vedas, the Hindu sacred scriptures)) way of life in Arabia. 3. That the knowledge of Indian arts and sciences was imparted by Indians to the Arabs directly by founding schools, academies and cultural centres. The belief, therefore, that visiting Arabs conveyed that knowledge to their own lands through their own indefatigable efforts and scholarship is unfounded. An ancillary conclusion could be that the so-called Kutub Minar (in Delhi, India) could well be king Vikramadiya’s tower commemorating his conquest of Arabia. This conclusion is strengthened by two pointers. Firstly, the inscription on the iron pillar near the so-called Kutub Minar refers to the marriage of the victorious king Vikramaditya to the princess of Balhika. This Balhika is none other than the Balkh region in West Asia. It could be that Arabia was wrestled by king Vikramaditya from the ruler of Balkh who concluded a treaty by giving his daughter in marriage to the victor. Secondly, the township adjoining the so called Kutub Minar is named Mehrauli after Mihira who was the renowned astronomer-mathematician of king Vikram’s court. Mehrauli is the corrupt form of Sanskrit ‘Mihira-Awali’ signifying a row of houses raised for Mihira and his helpers and assistants working on astronomical observations made from the tower.Having seen the far reaching and history shaking implications of the Arabic inscription concerning king Vikrama, we shall now piece together the story of its find. How it came to be recorded and hung in the Kaaba in Mecca. What are the other proofs reinforcing the belief that Arabs were once followers of the Indian Vedic way of life and that tranquillity and education were ushered into Arabia by king Vikramaditya’s scholars, educationists from an uneasy period of “ignorance and turmoil” mentioned in the inscription.In Istanbul, Turkey, there is a famous library called Makhatab-e-Sultania, which is reputed to have the largest collection of ancient West Asian literature. In the Arabic section of that library is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. That anthology was compiled from an earlier work in A.D. 1742 under the orders of the Turkish ruler Sultan Salim.he pages of that volume are of Hareer – a kind of silk used for writing on. Each page has a decorative gilded border. That anthology is known as Sayar-ul-Okul. It is divided into three parts. The first part contains biographic details and the poetic compositions of pre-Islamic Arabian poets. The second part embodies accounts and verses of poets of the period beginning just after prophet Mohammad’s times, up to the end of the Banee-Um-Mayya dynasty. The third part deals with later poets up to the end of Khalif Harun-al-Rashid’s times.Abu Amir Asamai, an Arabian bard who was the poet Laureate of Harun-al-Rashid’s court, has compiled and edited the anthology.The first modern edition of ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ was printed and published in Berlin in 1864. A subsequent edition is the one published in Beirut in 1932.he collection is regarded as the most important and authoritative anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. It throws considerable light on the social life, customs, manners and entertainment modes of ancient Arabia. The book also contains an elaborate description of the ancient shrine of Mecca, the town and the annual fair known as OKAJ which used to be held every year around the Kaaba temple in Mecca. This should convince readers that the annual haj of the Muslims to the Kaaba is of earlier pre-Islamic congregation.But the OKAJ fair was far from a carnival. It provided a forum for the elite and the learned to discuss the social, religious, political, literary and other aspects of the Vedic culture then pervading Arabia. ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ asserts that the conclusion reached at those discussions were widely respected throughout Arabia. Mecca, therefore, followed the Varanasi tradition (of India) of providing a venue for important discussions among the learned while the masses congregated there for spiritual bliss. The principal shrines at both Varanasi in India and at Mecca in Arvasthan (Arabia) were Siva temples. Even to this day ancient Mahadev (Siva) emblems can be seen. It is the Shankara (Siva) stone that Muslim pilgrims reverently touch and kiss in the Kaaba.Arabic tradition has lost trace of the founding of the Kaaba temple. The discovery of the Vikramaditya inscription affords a clue. King Vikramaditya is known for his great devotion to Lord Mahadev (Siva). At Ujjain (India), the capital of Vikramaditya, exists the famous shrine of Mahankal, i.e., of Lord Shankara (Siva) associated with Vikramaditya. Since according to the Vikramaditya inscription he spread the Vedic religion, who else but he could have founded the Kaaba temple in Mecca?Encyclopaedias tell us that there are inscriptions on the side of the Kaaba walls. What they are, no body has been allowed to study, according to the correspondence I had with an American scholar of Arabic. But according to hearsay at least some of those inscriptions are in Sanskrit, and some of them are stanzas from the Bhagavad Gita (HINDU SCRIPTURES).

          • Huyogisays

            Okay, now you seem to be on meth and are scaring me…

          • Robertspencer

            Asked hindus who their moon god was? They told lord shiva .Here is more for you

            Hubal, the moon god of the Kaba:

            What is quite certain is that the Pagan Arabs in Mecca worshipped a moon god
            called Hubal at the Kabah. Hubal was the Lord of the Kabah, being the highest
            ranking god of the 360 gods worshipped in the Kabah. Now here is the amazing
            thing. Allah was also worshipped as the Lord of the Kabah. Yet, Allah was never
            represented by any idol of physical nature. To suggest the polytheistic Arabs
            never created an idol to represent Allah is simply unreasonable and
            unbelievable. We suggest rather, that Hubal was who the Pagan Arabs addressed
            their prayers to Allah through. In other words, Allah was Hubal. Muhammad came
            along and smashed the idol of Hubal and now the Arabs had no idol of Allah to
            pray through any more and Hubal was forgotten. There are
            stories in the Sira of pagan Meccan praying to
            Allah while standing beside the image of
            Hubal. (Muhammad’s
            Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt, Chapter 3: Religion In Pre-Islamic Arabia,
            p26-45) We suggest that Arabs stood beside Hubal and prayed to him, referring to
            him as Allah.

            “II. The Religion of the Pre-Islamic Arabs The life of the pre-Islamic
            Arabs, especially in the Hijaz depended on trade and they made a trade of their
            religion as well. About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr
            bin Lahyo bin Harath bin Amr ul-Qais bin Thalaba bin Azd bin Khalan bin Babalyun
            bin Saba, a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put
            an idol called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities
            of the Quraish before Islam. It is said that there were altogether three
            hundred and sixty idols in and about the Kaba and that each tribes had its own
            deity…The shapes and figures of the idols were also made according to the
            fancy of the worshippers. Thus Wadd was shaped like a man, Naila like a woman,
            so was Suwa. Yaghuth was made in the shape of lion, Yauq like a horse and Nasr
            like a vulture.. Besides Hubal, there was another idol
            called Shams placed on the roof of the Kaba…The blood of the
            sacrificial animals brought by the pilgrims was offered to the deities in the
            Kaba and sometimes even human beings were sacrificed and offered to the god…
            Besides idol-worship, they also worshipped the stars, the sun and the moon.” (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz
            Ghulam Sarwar (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim)
            Among the gods worshiped by the Quraysh, the greatest was Hubal, this on the expert testimony of Ibn
            al-Kalbi: “The Quraysh had several idols in and around the Ka’ba. The greatest of these was Hubal. It was made, as I was told, of red agate, in the
            form of a man with the right hand broken off It came into the possession of the
            Quraysh in this condition, and they therefore made for it a hand of gold…. It
            stood inside the Ka’ba, and in front of it were seven divinatory arrows. On one
            of these was written the word “Pure,” and on another “associated alien.”
            Whenever the lineage of a new-born was doubted, they would offer a sacrifice to
            Hubal and then shuffle the arrows and throw
            them. If the arrows showed the word “Pure,” the child would be declared
            legitimate and the tribe would accept him. If, however, the arrows showed
            “associated alien,” the child would be declared illegitimate and would reject
            him. The third arrow had to do with divination concerning the dead, while the
            fourth was for divination about marriage. The purpose of the
            three remaining arrows has not been explained. Whenever they disagreed
            concerning something, or proposed to embark upon a journey, or undertake some
            other project, they would proceed to Hubal and shuffle the divinatory
            arrows before it. Whatever result they obtained they would follow and do
            accordingly. (Ibn al-Kalbi, Book of Idols 28-29 = Ibn al-Kalbi 1952:
            23-24) (The Hajj, F. E.
            Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
            “Before Muhammad appeared, the Kaaba was surrounded by 360 idols, and every
            Arab house had its god. Arabs also believed in jinn (subtle beings), and some
            vague divinity with many offspring. Among the major deities of the pre-Islamic
            era were al-Lat (“the Goddess”), worshiped in the shape of a square stone;
            al-Uzzah (“the Mighty”), a goddess identified with the morning star and
            worshiped as a thigh-bone-shaped slab of granite between al Talf and Mecca;
            Manat, the goddess of destiny, worshiped as a black stone on
            the road between Mecca and Medina; and the moon god,
            Hubal, whose worship was connected with the Black Stone of the
            Kaaba. The stones were said to have fallen from the sun, moon, stars, and
            planets and to represent cosmic forces. The so-called Black Stone (actually the
            color of burnt umber) that Muslims revere today is the same one that their
            forebears had worshiped well before Muhammad and that they believed had come
            from the moon. (No scientific investigation has ever been performed on the
            stone. In 930, the stone was removed and shattered by an Iraqi sect of
            Qarmatians, but the pieces were later returned. The pieces, sealed in pitch and
            held in place by silver wire, measure about 10 inches in diameter altogether and
            several feet high; they are venerated today in patched-together form.)” (The Joy of Sects, Peter
            Occhigrosso, 1996)
            It is not related that the Black Stone was connected with any special god.
            In the Ka’ba was the statue of the god Hubal
            who might be called the god of Mecca and of the Ka’ba. Caetani gives great
            prominence to the connection between the Ka’ba and Hubal. Besides him, however, al-Lat, al-`Uzza, and
            al-Manat were worshipped and are mentioned in the Kur’an; Hubal is never mentioned there. What position Allah held beside these is not exactly known. The
            Islamic tradition has certainly elevated him at the expense of other deities. It
            may be considered certain that the Black Stone was not the only idol in or at
            the Ka’ba. The Makam Ibrahim was of course a sacred stone from very early times.
            Its name has not been handed down. Beside it several idols are mentioned, among
            them the 360 statues. (First
            Encyclopedia of Islam, E.J. Brill, 1987, Islam, p. 587-591)
            All the accumulation of heathendom, which had gathered round the Ka’ba, was
            now thrust aside. 36o idols are said to have stood around the building. When
            touched with the Prophet’s rod they all fell to the ground. The statue of
            Hubal which `Amr b. Luhaiy is said to have
            erected over the pit inside the Ka’ba was removed as well as the representations
            of the prophets. (First Encyclopedia of
            Islam, E.J. Brill, 1987, Islam, p. 587-591)
            Towards the end of the fifth century, perhaps, a strong man by the name of
            Qusayy succeeded either by force or trickery in gaining control of the temple.
            He belonged to the tribe of Quraysh, an assemblage of several clans which,
            through him, supplanted the Khuza’a. There may be some foundation of truth in
            the story that Qusayy had travelled in Syria, and had brought back from there
            the cult of the goddesses al- ‘Uzza and Manat, and had combined it with that of
            Hubal, the idol of the Khuzaca. It has been
            suggested that he may actually have been a Nabataean. (Mohammed, Maxime Rodinson, 1961,
            translated by Anne Carter, 1971, p 38-49)
            The Ka’ba at Mecca, which may have initially been a shrine of Hubal alone, housed several idols; a number of others,
            too, were gathered in the vicinity. (Mohammed, Maxime Rodinson, 1961,
            translated by Anne Carter, 1971, p 38-49)
            The use of the phrase ‘the Lord of this House makes it likely that those
            Meccans who believed in Allah as a high god-and they may have been numerous-regarded the Ka’ba
            as his shrine, even though there were images of other gods in it. There are
            stories in the Sira of pagan Meccan praying to
            Allah while standing beside the image of
            Hubal. (Muhammad’s
            Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt, Chapter 3: Religion In Pre-Islamic Arabia,
            p26-45)
            The temple was evidently at the centre of a cult involving idol worship. The
            presiding deity was Hubal, a large carnelian
            statue kept inside the temple; 36o other idols were ranged outside. The three
            goddesses described in the Quran as the ‘daughters of
            Allah’ – Allat, ‘Uzza and Manat – were also worshipped in the
            vicinity. (Islam in the World,
            Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
            Hubal (from Aram. for vapour, spirit), evidently the chief deity
            of al-Ka’bah, was represented in human form. Beside him stood ritual arrows used
            for divination by the soothsayer (kdhin, from Aramaic) who drew lots by means of
            them. The tradition in ibn-Hisham, which makes ‘Amr ibn-Luhayy the importer of
            this idol from Moab or Mesopotamia, may have a kernel of truth in so far as it
            retains a memory of the Aramaic origin of the deity. At the conquest of Makkah
            by Muhammad Hubal shared the lot of the other
            idols and was destroyed. (History Of
            The Arabs, Philip K. Hitti, 1937, p 96-101)
            The statue of Hubal was inside the
            building during the Age of Barbarism, but the ritual performed there was the
            Abrahamic one of circumcision. (The
            Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
            Amr ibn Luhayy brought with him (to Mecca) an idol called Hubal from the land of Hit in Mesopotamia.59 Hubal was one the Quraysh’s greatest idols. So he set
            it up at the well inside the Ka’ba and ordered the people to worship it. Thus a
            man coming back from a journey would visit it and circumambulate the House
            before going to his family, and he would shave his hair before it. Muhammad ibn
            Ishaq said that Hubal was (made of) cornelian
            pearl in the shape of a human. His right hand was broken off and the Quraysh
            made a gold hand for it. It had a vault for the sacrifice, and there were seven
            arrows cast (On issues relating to) a dead person, virginity and marriage. Its
            offering was a hundred camels. It had a custodian (hajib). (Azraqi 1858: 73-74)
            Finally, among the pictures that decorated the interior of the Ka’ba in
            pre-Islamic days, there was one, as Azraqi says, “of Abraham as an old man.” But
            because the figure was shown performing divination by arrows, it seems likely
            that it was Hubal. The suspicion is
            strengthened by the fact that when Muhammad finally took over the sanctuary, he
            permitted the picture of Jesus to remain but had that of “Abraham” removed with
            the dry comment, “What has Abraham to do with arrows?”” Has Hubal depicted as “Abraham the Ancient” anything to do
            with the “Ancient House,” as the Ka’ba is often called? Or, to put the question
            more directly: Was it Hubal rather
            than Allah who was “Lord of the Ka’ba”?”
            Probably not. The Quran, which makes no mention of Hubal, would certainly have raised the contention.
            Hubal was, by the Arabs’ own tradition, a
            newcomer to both Mecca and the Ka’ba, an outsider introduced by the ambitious
            Amr ibn Luhayy, and the tribal token around which the Quraysh later attempted to
            construct a federation with the surrounding Kinana, whose chief deity Hubal was. Hubal was
            introduced into the Ka’ba, but he never supplanted the god Allah, whose House it continued to be. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)

            “According to a theory held by many, this temple had been sourceally
            connected with the ancient worship of the sun, moon and stars, and its
            circumambulation by the worshippers had a symbolical reference to the rotation
            of the heavenly bodies. Within its precincts and in its neighborhood there were
            found many idols, such as Hubal, Lat, Ozza,
            Manah, Wadd, Sawa, Yaghut, Nasr, Isaf, Naila, etc. A black stone in the temple
            wall was regarded with superstitious awe as eminently sacred” (Muhammad and Muhammadanism, S.W.
            Koelle, 1889, p. 17-19)
            The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God, but early in
            Arabian history the name became a general term for god, and it was this name
            that the Hebrews used prominently in their personal names, such as Emanuel,
            Israel, etc., rather than the Bapal of the northern semites proper, which was
            the Sun. Similarly, under Mohammed’s tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah
            became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allâh, the Supreme Being. (Southern Arabia, Carleton S. Coon,
            Washington, D.C. Smithsonian, 1944, p.399)
            The more the significance of the cult declined, the greater became the value
            of a general religious temper associated with
            Allah. Among the Meccans he was already coming to take the place of
            the old moon-god Hubal as the lord of the
            Ka’bah…Allah was actually the guardian of contracts, though at first these
            were still settled at a special ritual locality and so subordinate to the
            supervision of an idol. In particular he was regarded as the guardian of the
            alien guest, though consideration for him still lagged behind duty to one’s
            kinsmen.” (History of the Islamic
            Peoples, Carl Brockelmann, p 8-10)
            At Mekka, Allah was the chief of the gods
            and the special deity of the Quraish, the prophet’s tribe. Allah had three daughters: Al Uzzah (Venus) most
            revered of all and pleased with human sacrifice; Manah, the goddess of destiny,
            and Al Lat, the goddess of vegetable life. Hubal and more than 300 others made up the pantheon.
            The central shrine at Mekka was the Kaaba, a cube like stone structure which
            still stands though many times rebuilt. Imbedded in one corner is the black
            stone, probably a meteorite, the kissing of which is now an essential part of
            the pilgrimage.” (Meet the Arab,
            John Van Ess, 1943, p. 29.)
            “As well as worshipping idols and spirits, found in animals, plants, rocks
            and water, the ancient Arabs believed in several major gods and goddesses whom
            they considered to hold supreme power over all things. The most famous of these
            were Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, Manat and Hubal. The
            first three were thought to be the daughters of
            Allah (God) and their intercessions on behalf of their worshippers
            were therefore of great significance. Hubal
            was associated with the Semitic god Ba’l and with Adonis or Tammuz, the gods of
            spring, fertility, agriculture and plenty…Hubal’s
            idol used to stand by the holy well inside the Sacred House. It was made of red
            sapphire but had a broken arm until the tribe of Quraysh, who considered him one
            of their major gods, made him a replacement in solid gold.” (Fabled Cities, Princes & Jin
            from Arab Myths and Legends, Khairt al-Saeh, 1985, p. 28-30.)
            This was especially true of Allah, ‘the
            God, the Divinity’, the personification of the divine world in its highest form,
            creator of the universe and keeper of sworn oaths. In the Hejaz three goddesses
            had pride of place as the ‘daughters of
            Allah’. The first of these was Allat, mentioned by Herodotus under
            the name of Alilat. Her name means simply ‘the goddess’, and she may have stood
            for one aspect of Venus, the morning star, although hellenized Arabs identified
            her with Athene. Next came Uzza, ‘the all-powerful’, whom other sources identify
            with Venus. The third was Manat, the goddess of fate, who held the shears which
            cut the thread of life and who was worshipped in a shrine on the sea-shore.
            The great god of Mecca was Hubal, an idol made of red
            cornelian. (Mohammed,
            Maxime Rodinson, 1961, translated by Anne Carter, 1971, p 16-17)
            Sacred times and places also seem to have been respected for the most part.
            The Qur’an has many references to Pagans Praying to their ‘Partner-gods’
            (shuraka’) -a matter to be discussed later-and there is a
            report of Abu Sufyan Praying to the god Hubal at Uhud. (Muhammad’s Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt,
            Chapter 3: Religion In Pre-Islamic Arabia, p26-45)
            Each state or tribe had had its own moon god under a national or local name.
            The temples had been centres of religious life, and the priests of the moon gods
            had normally provided oracle services. Pilgrimage had been performed to certain
            temples of the moon gods, with rituals similar in many details to those of the
            pre-Islamic and Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca. (Britannica, Arabia, History of, p
            1045, 1979)
            South Arabian deities. In the official cults of the South Arabian kingdoms,
            the devotees venerated most highly a triad of deities that were astral in
            character: the moon god, the sun goddess, and the god equated with the planet
            Venus. Each of these deities bore a variety of names, depending on the region,
            or on a particular attribute of the divinity. Chief among the triad was the moon
            god, who was the protector of the principal cities. … the people of Hadramawt
            the offspring of Sin (the name of the moon god in ancient Babylonia). In each
            region other names of the moon god appear, derived from aspects of the lunar
            cycle or other attributes. (Britannica, Arabian Religions,
            p1057, 1979)
            Despite the prominence of the name elsewhere among Semitic peoples, the god
            Il (EI) appears to play a comparatively minor role in the South Arabian
            inscriptions. Some modem scholars have sought to explain this circumstance by
            equating Il with the moon god, but this opinion has not prevailed. (Britannica, Arabian Religions,
            p1057, 1979)
            HUBAL, the name of an idol, which was worshipped at Mecca in the Ka`ba
            but otherwise is only known from a Nabataean inscription (Carp. Inscr.
            Semit., ii. n”. 189 = Jaussen et Savignac, Afission Archiol. en Arabie, i. 169,
            170) where it is mentioned along with Dushara and Manutu. It is thus probable
            that the tradition according to which `Amr b. Luhaiy [q. v.] brought the idol
            with him from Moab or Mesopotamia, is correct in retaining a memory of the
            foreign, to be more accurate Aramaic, origin of Hubal, although the substance of the tradition is
            otherwise quite legendary. The name cannot be explained from the Arabic for the
            etymologies in Yakut etc. condemn themselves, but Pocock’s supposition that
            Hubal is equivalent to [Hebrew] although
            defended by Dozy, is hardly better founded. Another tradition indeed relates
            that Hubal was an idol of the Banu Ki-nana,
            worshipped also by the Kuraish, and had been placed in the Ka’ba by Khuzaima b.
            Mudrika wherefore it used to be called Hubal
            Khuzaima. It is further related that the idol was of red carnelian in the form
            of a man; the Kuraish replaced the right hand which was broken, by a golden one;
            it was the custom to consult the idol by divination with arrows; this was done
            for example by `Abd al-Muttalib with reference to his son `Abd Allah, etc. We
            learn nothing further about the cult of this idol and the legends are quite
            worthless for the comprehension of the real nature of the deity. After the
            conquest of Mecca Hubal shared the lot of all
            other idols and the image was removed from the Ka’ba and destroyed.(First Encyclopedia of Islam, E.J.
            Brill, 1987, Hubal)
            Hubal, an Arabian god whose worship was fostered in Mecca by the
            Khuza’i ‘Amr b. Luhayy [q.v.] in the first half of the 3rd century A.D.
            Represented at first by a baetyl, like most of the Arab deities, it was later
            personified, with human features, by a statue made of cornelian, with the right
            arm truncated (cf. Judges III, 15, XX, 16) and which the Kuraysh’s are said to
            have replaced by a golden arm (al-Azraki, Akhbar Makka, ed. Wustenfeld, Leipzig
            1858, 74). It was from a town with thermal springs (hamma) that it was
            apparently brought to the Hidjaz. Having come there to bathe in the waters and
            thereby being cured of a serious illness, `Ainr b. Luhayy, it is said, had taken
            back this statue with him. (The Encyclopaedia Of
            Islam, New Edition, Edited By B. Lewis, V. L. Menage, Ch. Pellat And J.
            Schacht, 1971, HUBAL page 536)
            Having asked the local inhabitants what was the justification of their
            idols, `Amr b. Lullayy is said to have received the following reply: .. these
            are the lords (arbab) whom we have chosen, having [simultaneously] the form of
            the celestial temples (al-hayakil al-`ulwiyya) and that of Human beings. We ask
            them for victory over our enemies and they grant it to us; we ask them for rain,
            in time of drought, and they give it to us”. In the Ka’ba, Hubal must have preserved this original character of a
            stellar deity; but his most characteristic role was that of a cleromantic
            divinity. Indeed, it was before the god that the sacred lots were cast. The
            statue stood inside the Ka’ba, above the sacred well which was thought to have
            been dug by Abraham to receive the offerings brought to the sanctuary
            (al-Azraki, 31). Another Somewhat surprising fact indicates a connection with
            Abraham: in the mural paintings of the pre-islamic Ka’ba, Hubal, represented as an old man holding arrows, seems
            to have been assimilated with Abraham (al-Azraki, III). (The Encyclopaedia Of
            Islam, New Edition, Edited By B. Lewis, V. L. Menage, Ch. Pellat And J.
            Schacht, 1971, HUBAL page 536)
            The earliest mention of the name Hubal
            occurs in a Nabataean inscription (CIS, ii, 198), in which it appears as an
            associate of Manawat. According to al-Azraki (73), its cult was the best
            organized in the Ka’ba: a hadjib guarded the idol; he received the offerings and
            sacrifices that were brought; he shook the arrows of divination before it. When
            a Meccan returned from travelling, he used to go to give thanks to the god
            before going to his own home. In the field of popular piety at least, it
            eclipsed the other deities in the Meccan pantheon, to such an extent that there
            has been some speculation whether the unanimity regarding this cult did not help
            to prepare the way for Allah. (The Encyclopaedia Of
            Islam, New Edition, Edited By B. Lewis, V. L. Menage, Ch. Pellat And J.
            Schacht, 1971, HUBAL page 536)
            “the Ka’aba was dedicated to al-Ilah, the High God of the pagan Arabs,
            despite the presiding effigy of Hubal. By the
            beginning of the seventh century, al-Ilah had become more important than before
            in the religious life many of the Arabs. Many primitive religions develop a
            belief in a High God, who is sometimes called the Sky God…But they also
            carried on worshipping the other gods, who remained deeply important to them.”
            (Karen Armstrong, Muhammad,
            (New York: San Francisco, 1992) p. 69.)

          • Huyogisays

            Thank you, that’s a lot of detailed research and makes for very interesting reading; but you shouldn’t have bothered really, it’s no secret that pre-Islamic Arabs were pagans and that idols were worshiped in the Kaaba itself. It was of course a simplistic sort of paganism, it had none of the sophistication of Hinduism with it’s profound and sometimes convoluted philosophical speculation and constructs. Be that as it may, what exactly are we getting at with all this? That Indian Muslims had Hindu ancestors ? An idiot can tell that just by looking at us, there’s no need for any DNA tests!  Why go to such lengths to prove that point, we all are obviously of the same stock, so? Why should Muslims “proudly” acknowledge that, i have to “proudly” acknowledge no shit for that maniac..in fact, if you insist i acknowledge that i am ashamed of having casteist crafty pagans for ancestors who denied the truth with a system of elaborate philosophical circumlocutions. Alright, i take that back, just don’t push it. Swamy crossed that line and now look at him, disgraced and shunned by both, civilized society and academia.

          • Robertspencer

            If it was simplistic and nice why was it replaced. isnt it the time to go back to the original one. 

          • Huyogisays

            Now i am having serious doubts about your ability to grasp the import of, or understand fully even your own posts that you have copy -pasted in toto from various sources

          • Huyogisays

            It’s   like talking to deaf and dumb zombies here, one makes an effort but meets with this mule headed resistance..aagh, whatever, i gave it my best shot with you maggots, up yours then and a happy new year to you all..until next time then, when you are all properly restrained in handcuffs or straitjackets, whichever is applicable.

          • http://www.facebook.com/deepak.jha Deepak Jha

            There is no law that prevents state from enforcing that formula. If the state does go by what he says, you’ll have to acknowledge it and there’s nothin you can do about it.

  • Ka010185

    Abey gadhe Huyogi ek ADIVE for you… the type of deplorable activism you are showing here makes you look like the blind Dhrithrashtra of Mahabharat .The real problem to the world is Islamic  Quran and the shuras and when the Mullah’s propogate it as word of god. So gadhee my sincere advice is that you should be opposing people like Zakir naik , the peace tv and their ilk. And almost all the islamic scholars because one thing is for sure otherwise the kafirs ( isn’t it what you call us ), lol,   will surely win and in about a few decades muhammad will be put in the category of Osama and all his followers. And the great simple man Swamy to you may look like someone who is anti islam rather he is the one true Humanitarian the great secularist only thing is he is showing a mirror and asking relevent question is his heart he is a great simple humble man who has a vision to unite India and then the worldSo rather you should join Swami ji , take off your biased glasses and you will see his true great self.

    • Sanskritamara

      Show this to Naik. His ancestors were Naiks, hindus. They retained the hindu last name to remind their future generation , that they were hindus.
      Some one said sanskrit was dead language. If sanskrit is dead we all are dead.
      Here are few words contributed by a CONTRIBUTOR. I have seen it elsewere.
      Allah means mother or goddess and mother goddess. Many Koranic verses are the
      exact translation of a stanza in the Yajurveda and Samveda. This was pointed out
      by the great research scholar Dr. Gamal abu Hamza of Cairo university. In March
      1993, he declared his firm belief that Mohd had been to Kashmir to learn
      Vedanta. He was later threatened by fundamentalist. He then disappered from the
      scene.

       Another Cairo university scholar points out that the following teaching
      from the Koran is exactly similar to the teaching of the Kena Upanishad (1.7).
      The Koran: “Sight perceives Him not. But He perceives men’s sights; for He is
      the knower of secrets , the Aware.” Kena Upanishad: “That which cannot be seen
      by the eye but through which the eye itself sees, know That to be Brahman (God)
      and not what people worship here (in the manifested world).”
      A simplified
      meaning of both the above verses reads: God is one and that He is beyond man’s
      sensory experience. It will now be easy to comprehend the various Hindu customs
      still prevailing in West Asian countries even after the existence of Islam
      during the last 1300 years.
      Let me review some Hindu traditions which exist as
      the core of Islamic practice.The lunar calendar was introduced in West Asia
      during the Indian rule.
      The Muslim month Safar signifying the extra month (Adhik
      Maas) in the Hindu calendar.
      The Muslim sanctity for Gyrahwi Sharif is nothing
      but the Hindu Ekadashi (Gyrah = elevan or Gyaarah). Both are identical in
      meaning. Eid in Sanskrit means worship. The Islamic word Eid for festive days,
      signifying days of worship, is therefore a pure Sanskrit word.
       Similarly the
      word Namaz derives from two Sanskrit roots Nama and Yajna (NAMa yAJna) meaning
      bowing and worshipping.
      Vedic descriptions about the moon, the different stellar
      constellations and the creation of the universe have been incorporated from the
      Vedas in Koran part 1 chapter 2, stanza 113, 114, 115, and 158, 189, chapter 9,
      stanza 37 and chapter 10, stanzas 4 to 7.
      Recital of the Namaz five times a day
      owes its origin to the Vedic injunction of Panchmahayagna (five daily worship-
      Panch-Maha-Yagna) which is part of the daily Vedic ritual prescribed for all
      individuals
       

      • Ka010185

        Yah that’s the problem with Islamic Bull Shit and their chutiya Scholars they seem to more on every other topic. But such arguments as proposed by you are never brought by anyone forget any historian “Muhmmad visited Kashmir” WTF , it shows there is no limit to Islamic stupidity and propaganda ( ie this is as we say is FULL TIME CHUTIYAPA )
        And about the Vedas they as they exist hardly known to any hindu saint in full but Muslims seems to know it that’s the cheapest part. It’s like a muslim donkey having brought a few books on medicine starts claiming to now being a DOCTOR.
        AND form your interpretation of  hinduism and the twisted mollified claims on vedic traditions seem to be the follower of that joker Zakir Naik or his ilk.

        Well try the link below for the most authentic source on islam :

        http://alisina.org/

        http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm

  • D-Company

     Dr. Swamy exposed the 2G spectrum scam & the special laws that were made by Chidambaram and Pranab Mukharjee to facilitate black money involved in the scam. He also exposed the national security issues involved in 2G Scam as Dawood Ibrahim’s Men Shahid Balwa was key figure in buying spectrum, ISI front companies were also involved.

    So world’s most wanted criminal no#2 Dawood Ibrahim along with the current ruling Congress/UPA is against Dr. Swamy’s anti-corruption efforts. As always the Congress is playing the communal card by misrepresenting the op-ed which was written based on Dr. Swamy’s book published in 2005 “Hindutva and National Renaissance”. Why did Harvard not take any action in 2005 and wait until 2011 op-ed which got published following the bomb blasts in Mumbai.

    Where was all the Harvard people when Congress hooligans attacked Dr. Swamy’s house when his daughter was alone!

    Dr. Swamy’s & Swami Ramdev has jointly organised a huge public conference to speak against corruption on 4th Feb’12 in Delhi, and guess what Congress sends a Muslim man Kamran Siddiqui to throw black ink on Baba Ramdev’s face to trigger communal riots!

    For anyone understanding Indian history & politics it won’t take too much time to connect the dots!
     

  • ramachandrasekaran

    why DNA should remove his op-ed piece.This very piece was lying at his party’s website ,a public domain space ,” for so many 9 to 10 years .”breaking point”….. reached

  • Skrc1989

    swammy is totally bastard man, who speaks  like this for only publicity.
         Every religion has its on importance , if any one used this type of sentences, I think and evry one should have to think this type people is really the caused of terrorism in this world.

    • Wang Wang Diggilly

      I dont think there is any problem when accepting the fact that ancestors of Muslim in India were Hindus …and if they don’t have that they wont have a Voting right..I don’t think that anything wrong.  Terrorism is spread with people like you who dont accept their ancestral history. If Muslim in India accept their ancestors to be Hindus they will fell closer to the Hindus in culture like a blood relation and  thus terrorism will come to an end in India. Mulsim will feel this there ancestral country and should develop and respect it rather than connecting themselves with wild Arabs or violent Turks and supporting terrorism on the land of Indian in any way.   

  • http://www.facebook.com/deepak.jha Deepak Jha

    1. Adult suffrage is not a matter of human rights.

    2. Swami’s op-ed never said that Muslim’s can practice their religion (India is a secular country)

    3. Harvard knows nothing about the socioeconomic conditions of India and its history. (the conclusion that swami reached about was on well-researched facts and it wasn’t gone into)

    4. Audi Alterem Partem is a rule of natural law which was bypassed.

  • Arun Maheshwari

    What is most surprising to me is that the politically correct leftist professors who are so upset about Swamy’s comments have no objection to having an Islamic center sponsored by Wahabi Saudi Arabia to teach Islam, which is the most hateful, violent, and vile religion that preaches killing of non Muslims, and killing of Muslims who want to leave their religion. It is also interesting that tenured professor like Eck will defend the practice of tenure because it promotes free speech but they will not give the same freedom to a very large number of faculty who are not tenured. Sounds like Orwell — some are more equal than others. Finally, Professor Eck has distorted the facts to fit her case; e.g., her arugument that Swamy’s free speech will lead to violence. There never was any violence in India. In fact, India, which has strict rules against hate speech and minority protection better than the US, did not consider the op ed page to be a big deal. May be this poor and backward country is smarter than leftis Harvard professors.

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